Jeff Ream Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 A few months ago I would have agreed with you. Then on of my friends showed me a video from BOA Grand Nationals, the group from Tarpon Springs High School with their show "Paranormal", and it completely changed my opinion on how marching shows should be done. Just a few bullet points of information: - It starts with synth - The first instrument you hear is an amplified Soprano Sax solo. - Props run rampant across the entire field - Sound effects are everywhere - Vocals are constant - There's an amplified clarinet solo about 2/3 the way through We got done watching the video (on that one site... you know....), and my friend turned to me and said "now did you notice anything different?" I said no, I was too busy noticing how incredible their performance was and how awesome the show was as a whole. I was floored and went back to watch again after he said "did you notice there wasn't a drumline? All the percussion was either front ensemble or the electronics." So was I angry? No. Their show wasn't missing anything. At least not from an objective, purely entertainment-based perspective. Did I immediately think "oh they should have had a drumline?" At first yes. But then I thought about it some more... But that's another topic entirely. Now I know this doesn't immediately touch on the singing. But what I'm pressing is more so that I don't believe that it matters how anyone gets their point across, so long as they do it well. If the Cadets are going to use a vocal major for various parts of the show, as long as it's done tastefully and shows respect to the source material, then more power to them. And don't go all "they're not going to do it tastefully" on me. I know what things have been like in the past. I may only be 21, but I've followed drum corps my whole life. I know what they have done, and I also know what they can do. And what they can potentially do means a whole lot more to me than the past. Bottom line - I love the source music, having performed it this past semester with the wind symphony I'm in. I'm excited for the Cadets to do this particular Ticheli because they always do well with Ticheli pieces. If the summer comes and I hate what they're doing then, then I'll hate it. But not until then. Everyone hated 2006, and the Cadets know that. So maybe they'll learn from their mistakes. Let's wait to pass judgement until there's evidence for it being bad. I watched some of the BOA stuff. it was ok and performed well, but it's not what I would pay DCI prices to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Michael, I defer to your expertise and knowledge of the program, but I still call B.S. He certainly had enough percussionists to fill out that pit! He didn't have the creativity to put ANY battery on the field? Not a single snare, bass, or tenor? With the avant-guard nature of that show I would think he could work in the few battery percussionists you say he had. If he's the ONLY high school level teacher he most definitely has input on the development of younger players. I appreciate your interviews of 20 years ago, but in that time could a middle school percussion program have been developed? You know, as I do, that most band directors have more drummers than they know what to do with. That hasn't changed over 20 years, or 40 for that matter. Pinellas County is not small geographically. I certainly hope that his indoor line draws attention to marching battery, but I would think the effort would be better implemented at the elementary level. he may be the HS director, but he may not have control over what happens at the levels below him. I taught at a school with grounded percussion for 2 years. I wanted battery, but I didn't have the bodies. Wasn't my fault, I tried to get stuff going on in the lower levels. So did the HS band director. the Elemntary program had 20 drummers. but the middle school guy hated drummers, chased them off, and we did what we could. you lose kids in middle school, forget about getting them back in HS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 No. A&E have been in use in marching band for over 30 years. Whatever lessons are to be learned have had three decades of study there, sometimes by the same people that have implemented these devices in drum corps. and as we can see, they haven't learned much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Uh, the show that I was a part of, which just happens to be that one. As I brought up earlier, there was no synth part right there. It wasn't in the impact. I don't know what you thought you heard, but it wasn't synth. oops. um, but your brass arranger even came on here and other places and admitted it was there and it was an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I won't argue your indefensible claim. What I will argue though is that every corps in DCI believes that the negatives of having no amps far outweigh the negatives of having an amp'd pit (and yes I do mean every corps. Unless some group is still going without mics). This also applies to next comment you had about the cop-out. I assume that the staff's of each corps found that it was more advantageous to have a slightly distorted sound (so slightly distorted that I wager that no more than five or ten people at any given show - other than volume from sitting too close - would complain that the sound was distorted) than have their members "bang their instruments senselessly" I would also wager that amplification can greatly reduce the risk of injury. Just as marching shoes have improved, and drum carriers have improved, the use of amplification allows for an alteration in technique that allows the player to play with a more concert-esque, injury-friendly technique. "As if even a momentary tacit from any of their ten 4-mallet-wielding keyboardists would risk disqualification." - It just seems apparent to me that you're simply not a fan of the pit. Sorry if that is a gross misunderstanding And obviously this is my opinion, as is most of what we are both saying, but I find that even without the pit "blaring" at me from the front several rows, sitting in front doesn't give me quite the same effect as when I'm sitting higher up. Given that every member is told to "point their bells to the box", I find that I get a better, more balanced sound sitting higher up, and that includes even when the pit is playing. Of course, this is what I guess one could consider "my cup of tea." uh since the guy knows micing well, i'd go along with his argument. and to b e honest, as a precussionist, I've seen very little adaptation to technique since the first amp plugged in. The only real change has been in mallet selection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I agree with much of this minus how it ignores the balance issues that stille xist I as much as you want those resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 and I'm sure we'll disagree. funny how so many tunes of the past that had vocals in the original worked out just fine in drum corps without them True... maybe then it'll be a different to actually keep the vocals this time? Just for ##### and giggles? lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 and this is the crux (muahaha...first use this year) of the divide...dinos...purists...curmudgeons..whatever you want to call us, want drum corps played with instruments that WERE designed for large-venue outdoor performance. If it needs mic'd, it shouldn't be there. I'd rather NOT hear a marimba than hear a synthesizer in a drum corps setting. I'd rather hear a trumpet/sop interpretation of a violin passage than hear a violin patch...I want acoustic. I want to hear what the "kids" play...not an electronic rendition of what the kids are playing. ps...I like saxophones...I like synthesizers...I like oboes, and flutes, and bassoon...I love a screaming electric guitar..the hard thump of a 5 string Ibanez bass...I like singing...I like talking...just not on the drum corps field. There are other places for these things to exist. I've always imagined that if we let corps do what they want then corps will do things that please audience members. Maybe not all of them at the same time but each audience member will all be happy and upset equally. So what if Cadets decide to use singing, string quartet and 100 props on the field? Because that would then be counteracted by say... Madison getting rid of the synth and microphones and doing a show without a theme. People DO like either of these things so they should both be available. Frankly, whatever is stopping that kind of variety in drum corps is what we should really be trying to fix. And if you ask me, its ALL in the judging... What we should stop assuming is that one version of drum corps should exist. Instead, figure out how to get all the different "versions" of drum corps to work with each not against each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I've always imagined that if we let corps do what they want then corps will do things that please audience members. Maybe not all of them at the same time but each audience member will all be happy and upset equally. So what if Cadets decide to use singing, string quartet and 100 props on the field? Because that would then be counteracted by say... Madison getting rid of the synth and microphones and doing a show without a theme. People DO like either of these things so they should both be available. Frankly, whatever is stopping that kind of variety in drum corps is what we should really be trying to fix. And if you ask me, its ALL in the judging... What we should stop assuming is that one version of drum corps should exist. Instead, figure out how to get all the different "versions" of drum corps to work with each not against each other. Someone should totally lead a research group to address this exact issue in hopes of revising the assessment process in the future based on the findings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) What we should stop assuming is that one version of drum corps should exist. Instead, figure out how to get all the different "versions" of drum corps to work with each not against each other. Are there no limits to what drum corps is? If I go to see a string quartet perform and find an eight-piece rock band onstage, but they still call themselves a string quartet, are they? Or if you say that's just ridiculous, suppose that it's just four players: two on violin and two on synthesizer, because they really really wanted to play the 1812 Overture and be "true" to the original by patching the orchestra and cannons through some amps. Edited January 2, 2011 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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