What is the biggest challenge facing drum corps today?

[lindap]

Yes, ignore it. Just like it was right to ignore those who hated Bayonne in 76, or Garfield, Scouts and Cavies in 71...etc...any time something new comes along there are those who are unable to accept it.

correct...parents tend to make sure their kids have what they want and need...and they fund a lot of show and souvie purchasing by their kids...who arrive by the busloads.

Nope. Electronics are long overdue welcome additions to drum corps. IMO, of course, as is everything I post. You don't like them? That's your right.

Wrong.

the biggest challenge facing drum corps today? be true to your roots, explore the sound and say no to electronics, imo

I hope that we can agree to disagree; if we don't the ____ with you and here's to me ;-)

[skewerz]

1. The percentage of people that have marched in their high school marching AND are currently marching drum corps is extremely high. I dont' have exact percentages but from what I've heard I wouldn't be surprised if it was close to 95% percent. So yes, it is a bit like a drum corps factory. And YES it is EXTREMELY important that drum corps reaches high schools even if your pessimistic of its effectiveness. I marched in the marching band before I marched drum corps. I found out about drum corps through my high school band teacher.

2.You do know that Companies are ALWAYS changing their branding. McDonalds changes its menus to stay modern, its logos to stay current, it changes the design of its restaurants, CHANGE is an important part of businesses. Coke? you know coke has nearly a dozen different flavors. They have "diet coke" and "coke zero" even though they are both zero calories but have only MINOR taste differences. Things in this world only survived because it changed and adapted (I believe Darwin may have had something to say about that).

3.Sports are inherently changing all the times. The makeup of the team, the skills of the players, the team's attributes and coaches. Sports are ALSO always changing. The rules, maybe not so much, but everything else around it, always changing. The NFL's image is constantly changing, the ways to market and sell their coverage to networks is always changing. Change is the only Constant.

4.I think the TV programming world is a good analogy to drum corps. ABC is DCI and all the programs it has are the member corps. If ABC kept airing reruns of "The Nanny", would would people still want to see it today? Probably Not, even if it was extremely popular in the past. They come out with new and different shows ever season to see what "catches" sometimes its a hit and we have LOST ... and other times is a flop and we have "Pushing Daisies". If Media giants can't even find a consistenetn formula for what works how can we expect DCI to without being able to "change" and manipulate its products?

You can't retain fans if you don't change it. Achieving a balance of innovation and tradition is paramount. Not constantly one way or the other.

1. of course most drum corps people marched high school band. the converse, however is no where even close to being the same.

2. i'm not talking branding...i'm talking product. were you around when they changed coke?

3. soccer hasn't changed since the cretaceous era...neither has baseball, basketball, etc, etc. (yes, these are exaggerations...to make a point) sports isn't changing how it's played...which is what dci IS doing.

4. comparing drum corps to a tv channel? huh? I thought I made weird similes...i'm not talking about different shows. I'm talking about the makeup of shows. a different show is just a change...electric was an addition. That's a huge difference.

we're getting our definitions of change mixed up again, and i'm a culprit of that myself. ok..here's a weird analogy for ya...

Drum corps is chocolate cake...playing weird esoteric music is like not adding enough sugar. Little Jeffrey is too much icing. Crown's luscious brass sound during a power chord is a great tasting piece of cake. In this example, things have changed, but it's still flour, milk, chocolate..etc...

Now, synthesizers is like adding pickle juice to it (for me and lots of others) and for some others, it's like adding oh..I don't know...orange. I don't want cake with pickle juice in it, because it tastes horrible. To you, it's different, because it doesn't taste like pickle juice..it tastes like orange, which doesn't necessarily disturb you. You wouldn't purposely order a piece of chocolate cake with orange, but it doesn't taste bad enough to you to send it back.

For a LOT of people, electric is vile. For a LOT of people, it just doesn't matter. For a very small, tiny portion of people, electric is great. Drum corps is being changed for a very small tiny portion of fans, when the vast preponderance either don't like it, or don't care one way or the other.

Edited February 1, 2011 by skewerz

[JimF-LowBari]

No, it wasn't. Drum corps has always been a niche activity for marching band geeks.

Agree that DC was never as big as a lot of other musical entertainment. However DC used to be more well known to the general public. Have mentioned before the 2 or 3 (can't remember now) 70s syndicated comic strips I have (somewhere) that have Drum Corps as part of the punch line. True, not a great example but good idea of how far DC has fallen off the map to the general public.

Niche has just gotten smaller for a variety of reasons....

[JimF-LowBari]

You can't retain fans if you don't change it. Achieving a balance of innovation and tradition is paramount. Not constantly one way or the other.

Question is how far do the changes go. We had changes before to perc instruments and horn configurations. Not to mention those nasty discussions about GE vs M&M and adding Contras in the early 60s. (Check NanciDs History blog for those arguments that sound a lot like today.) When I see more large scale changes in a few years than I've seen in a few decades I wonder if the BoD is on to something or just hitting the panic button (OMG... we got problems... do something... again....)

Getting scary that we agree on a balance here. I don't want to see DC stagnate but adding non-prec and horn sounds kills my enjoyment of what I hear. Sooo.... I stay home for part of the activity. LOL, if I want to hear or see DC from my era I have plenty of CDs and can find a vid somewhere.... If I want current corps playing something I enjoy, I can find them somewhere.

Edited February 1, 2011 by JimF-LowBari

[audiodb]

The percentage of people that have marched in their high school marching AND are currently marching drum corps is extremely high. I dont' have exact percentages but from what I've heard I wouldn't be surprised if it was close to 95% percent.

I did a double-take upon reading this....obviously, nowhere near 95% of HS marching band kids could fit into the drum corps activity. I think what you're trying to say is that 95% of current DCI marchers have also marched in a HS band. I think DCI surveyed this, and the number wasn't THAT high....but it is certainly a majority.

So yes, it is a bit like a drum corps factory. And YES it is EXTREMELY important that drum corps reaches high schools even if your pessimistic of its effectiveness. I marched in the marching band before I marched drum corps. I found out about drum corps through my high school band teacher.

Me too....30 years ago.

You do know that Companies are ALWAYS changing their branding. McDonalds changes its menus to stay modern, its logos to stay current, it changes the design of its restaurants, CHANGE is an important part of businesses. Coke? you know coke has nearly a dozen different flavors. They have "diet coke" and "coke zero" even though they are both zero calories but have only MINOR taste differences. Things in this world only survived because it changed and adapted (I believe Darwin may have had something to say about that).

I think Darwin's theory was survival of the fittest....not survival of the one that changes most frequently.

Sports are inherently changing all the times. The makeup of the team, the skills of the players, the team's attributes and coaches. Sports are ALSO always changing. The rules, maybe not so much, but everything else around it, always changing. The NFL's image is constantly changing, the ways to market and sell their coverage to networks is always changing. Change is the only Constant.

My response to your rhetoric was already embedded in your rhetoric (bolded above).

I think the TV programming world is a good analogy to drum corps. ABC is DCI and all the programs it has are the member corps. If ABC kept airing reruns of "The Nanny", would would people still want to see it today? Probably Not, even if it was extremely popular in the past.

Ironic example....I keep hearing that show in my house. Don't ask me what network it's on, though.

I find your analogy useless. Reruns went out of style in DCI in the 1980s. Corps do whole new shows every season now.

Here's a more appropriate analogy. Say ABC and their advertisers weren't satisfied with the status quo, so they sent a crew over to your place to install giant speakers in your living room, and left a crew member there with a mixing board, so that when the commercials come on, he could crank the volume level to 11. Not only will that get your attention, it will also enable people in neighboring apartments or houses to hear the commercials too. ABC and their advertisers think this is an improvement. Would you agree?

[audiodb]

No, it wasn't. Drum corps has always been a niche activity for marching band geeks.

That is historically inaccurate. When the AL/VFW organized drum corps field competition, they organized marching band field competition at the same time. Clearly, drum corps was not "for marching band geeks".

And as for popularity, the 1958 AL Nationals drew 48,000 attendance. An ordinary five-corps show back then could sell more tickets than DCI Finals does today. Either drum corps was more "popular", or our "niche" was bigger back then.

[charlie1223]

I did a double-take upon reading this....obviously, nowhere near 95% of HS marching band kids could fit into the drum corps activity. I think what you're trying to say is that 95% of current DCI marchers have also marched in a HS band. I think DCI surveyed this, and the number wasn't THAT high....but it is certainly a majority.

That's what I said: I said the percentage of people who marched in high school band AND are currently marching drum corps is high.

[charlie1223]

I think Darwin's theory was survival of the fittest....not survival of the one that changes most frequently.

How does one become the fittest? By changing to adjust to your environment. Society is that environment and its always changing.

Sports do indeed change. They changed the rules and suddenly it becomes a different sport. The thing is that when they "create" a new sport they don't get rid of the old one. You have soccer... change the rules a bit and you get handball. You have ice hockey, make it outside and get roller hockey... change the sticks used and you have lacrosse. So yes, the rules of sports evolved and that lead to the creation of MORE sports. (whatever the order of sport creation, new sports were generated from older sports)

What's the difference with DCI? It's that all the changes they are doing are in effect replacing the original. This happens because DCI is only 1 organization with a unique product. It can only provide and offer so much in the non-competitive market of drum corps. DCI either has what you like or... you can't find what you like anywhere else. Luckily I'm opened minded and I don't see that as a HUGE problem but other people do.

What should be happening is corps should know their market so they can figure out just HOW MANY corps should do things the "old way" that will not effect their commitment to innovation and tradition. They should still have corps that do electronics, amps, etc. along with corps that don't do those things. (this is the ideal, even if it seems improbable, its really the only fix in my opinion.)

I like the way drum corps is now. I wouldn't mind if a few drum corps went a traditional route but at the same time I would NOT want ALL the corps to go on this traditional route.

I've said it before. Having Variety is important. Someone mentioned about how products have changed. Yes, products have changed and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but if you want to change something you first approach it as adding variety. Instead of replacing Diet Coke with Coke Zero (they are exactly the same calorie-wise but coke zero I guess tastes more like regular coke) Coca-Cola decided to just sell both because they new that some portion of the market for Diet Coke would be unwilling to make the change even IF they are SO similar to each other. Which is why knowing your market should be something DCI should be focusing on and I know that DCI corps do not agree on what their primary demographic is.

Here's a more appropriate analogy. Say ABC and their advertisers weren't satisfied with the status quo, so they sent a crew over to your place to install giant speakers in your living room, and left a crew member there with a mixing board, so that when the commercials come on, he could crank the volume level to 11. Not only will that get your attention, it will also enable people in neighboring apartments or houses to hear the commercials too. ABC and their advertisers think this is an improvement. Would you agree?

Silly, they couldn't do that because they would be breaking and entering because I would never let them in my house!

Edited February 1, 2011 by charlie1223

[dannyboy]

Financial Sustainability. Kids/families cannot compete with the rising costs of participation.

It's time for corpoarate sponsorship on a grande scale.

Too late. Too small/niche of an activity at this point for sugar daddy sponsors. Corporations and foundations are looking for the "most societal bang" for their philanthropic dollars. Money is going to things like women & children's health causes, education, social justice, and "green" things. The arts are hurting. What is increasingly PERCEIVED as a "rich kids' summer music program" is not going to get those dollars. Drum corps is no longer dragging kids from the street and putting a horn or drum in their hands to keep them out of trouble. That ended just about a generation ago now.

A reality I experienced in trying to get sponsorships/grants for Capital Regiment a few years ago was that these donors question why they need to support what, in their eyes, is a terribly capital-wasting (pun intended) activity, if measured on a per-kid basis. They find it outragous what is spent, per kid, compared to say, an urban reading program, early childhood health programs, etc.

And I completely agree with them. DCI's cost-per-member, paid instructors and show designers, transportation, instrument turnover... It is all quite obscene in the eyes of most prospective corporate supporters.

Sponsors like McDonalds and Disney -- they have far more impactful things to invest their monies with.

If you had, on the other hand, organizations with volunteer management and instructional staff, operated as LEAN as possible, modest fees ANY kid could come up with, and were providing something for average kids, rather than what has increasingly become a one-season resume-padder for music majors...

We/you (I no longer support the DCI activity) need to take a cold look in the mirror, as an activity, and ask how in the big picture of problems in society today this (arguably) elitist activity should warrant corporate underwriting.

[Mello Dude]

How does one become the fittest? By changing to adjust to your environment. Society is that environment and its always changing.

I would say you're correct with one small important caveat. In a normal world with, real VALID perceptions, yes. With the "powers that be" and some here on DCP..real world perceptions aren't really being realized and the sheer introvertness of this activity has morphed it un-naturally into another activity that does the same thing. Darwinism also deals with mutations...most die off or are absorbed.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Mello Dude