What is the biggest challenge facing drum corps today?

[mobrien]

Funny....I don't recall suggesting third-hand mismatched instruments, one-man instructional staffs or $75 tickets.

Thinking you can put the genie back in the bottle re: ticket pricing is a non-starter, as is the idea that you can get a full staff on tour with a corps for even less than it's being done now. Most staff members traveling with corps are already doing it for honoraria; thinking you can get them to do it for even less ain't gonna work.

The bar has been established; the question now is what to do to make it worth while. DCI's current approach clearly isn't working as well as it could, which means that it's time for something bigger and better, not smaller and cheaper. I've seen enough non-profits who tried answering big changes by scaling themselves back to bare bones, and in every single case, the organization ended up folding soon after. I see no reason to believe that DCI and the corps who make up the organization would be an exception to that rule.

You're growing or you're dying, and there's not much middle ground.

Edited February 6, 2011 by mobrien

[Howdy]

Thinking you can put the genie back in the bottle re: ticket pricing is a non-starter, as is the idea that you can get a full staff on tour with a corps for even less than it's being done now. Most staff members traveling with corps are already doing it for honoraria; thinking you can get them to do it for even less ain't gonna work.

The bar has been established; the question now is what to do to make it worth while. DCI's current approach clearly isn't working as well as it could, which means that it's time for something bigger and better, not smaller and cheaper. I've seen enough non-profits who tried answering big changes by scaling themselves back to bare bones, and in every single case, the organization ended up folding soon after. I see no reason to believe that DCI and the corps who make up the organization would be an exception to that rule.

You're growing or you're dying, and there's not much middle ground.

In 2008 when I was in Madison I kindly asked a lady next to where we were watching Pio get ready to compete if she would mind me looking at her ticket. She paid fifty dollars to go to that show. I told her, "For $50.00 we had better be extra good today". It made me think of the fact that our fans also make sacrifices to make shows happen. It was stated that corps staff fees only make up about 10 % of a corps operating budget. Insurance, fuel [ and or bus fees, trucks etc. ] food, and many other things make up a corps budget. I bet this summer that more corps directors stress over logistical expences than staff salaries. Asking corps staff to work for less than peanuts, when all they make is peanuts now does not seem very realistic. Think of corps staff like NFL free agents, the corps with the most money are going to be the ones competing to get the best staffers.

Is DCI declining? I could be wrong but it looks like DCI is hanging in there, and over the last two years may have had slightly lower attendance but that is just a guess and I could be wrong. One thing we know form the time I started in drumcorps we have gone from over 400 corps to less than 50. DCI member corps need to see the needs in DCI beyond their own corps, if this is possible. Hats off to guys like Steve Vickers, Dave Bryan, Bill Cook, and Roman Blenski [+ Surf's director] [ + others that I did not name]whose actions to help new, small and struggling drumcorps is very honorable.

Here is an idea, why not base all DCI staffers bonuses based upon the actual # of kids who march in jr drumcorps each year.

One suggested that the last minute or two of a corps show not be judged. What a fantastic idea. Park and blow baby! It would put more people in those stands.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Howdy

[Jeff Ream]

More likely it's that your companies offered bad products or services, or failed to innovate in such a way as to grow their customer base.

which is a perception out there held by some long time fans of DCI.

"The customer is always right" is a weak position used by those who aspire nothing more than to be servants. Most people don't know what they like until they actually see it. The best businesses are the ones who can see around corners and figure out what people are going to want BEFORE they know they want it. It's the key to Apple's explosive growth this past decade; knowing that the future of the company wasn't in desktops, but in a digital universe. When iPods were introduced, I remember seeing articles in major media like the WSJ scoffing at Jobs' product, since it seemed an expensive toy. Guess who was right and who was wrong? And "the customer" wasn't asked to weigh in before the product was brought to the marketplace; Apple acted on what they felt was correct, and as with most everything else they've touched lately, they were right.

so, where does DCI fall in this? Apple keeps thriving in a bad economy

(But the customer sure as hell weighed in on Microsoft's imitation, eh? Microsoft tried following the customer, and failed; Apple invented something so cool that people HAD to have it once they saw it, and succeeded.)

and Coke created new Coke. they tanked...they listened, and boom, success.

If DCI wants to grow the number of participants (which should be the primary goal) and the size of the fan base (secondary goal), they need to come up with a better model for what drum corps can be. Easier to attain (cheaper touring costs and cheaper tickets), more fun to watch, and (wait for it) louder. We live in an amplified world. Time to get over it. Take the mics out of the pit in favor of a front sideline mic'ing system that can pump up the volume from EVERYONE on the field. Apostasy? Sure, but the world has moved on. Every Broadway musical now (and most plays) is being amplified. People are used to hearing music pumped at them loud. My guess is that it's not that hornlines are actually significantly quieter than 30 years ago, but that our standards for what is "loud" have been changed by the world around us.

the problem with your micing solution is in Broadway, all of the leads are mic'd and can be heard over the ensemble, as well as they don't move nearly like a drum corps does. Sure if the field were smaller and fewer bodies, your mic idea could work.

The experience of going to a show should be faster (cut the break time between acts to 6 minutes or less), and bigger (the judging should embrace again the old "free minute" at the end so that corps can let loose with their biggest finishes). And someone is going to have to work with the corps to get them to understand how to program in such a way as to elicit more crowd response than they are now. Most of them aren't that interesting because their staffs are so up their own butts in terms of thinking their good ideas are actually impactful that no one is sitting them down and explaining that the audiences aren't caring about their big ideas.

now here i can't argue much

The challenge is one of presentation and perception. Money will follow successful rebranding of the activity. Looking for money WITHOUT making a concerted effort to modernize and improve the product is a waste of time.

does it have to be about modernizing tho? really how much has broadway changed?

[Jeff Ream]

1: Dinos thinking drum corps is doomed and not putting money towards the activity, thus making it more difficult for the current generation to have drum corps.

That is all. You are cancer.

do you spend money on things you don't like?

[Jeff Ream]

Thinking you can put the genie back in the bottle re: ticket pricing is a non-starter, as is the idea that you can get a full staff on tour with a corps for even less than it's being done now. Most staff members traveling with corps are already doing it for honoraria; thinking you can get them to do it for even less ain't gonna work.

The bar has been established; the question now is what to do to make it worth while. DCI's current approach clearly isn't working as well as it could, which means that it's time for something bigger and better, not smaller and cheaper. I've seen enough non-profits who tried answering big changes by scaling themselves back to bare bones, and in every single case, the organization ended up folding soon after. I see no reason to believe that DCI and the corps who make up the organization would be an exception to that rule.

You're growing or you're dying, and there's not much middle ground.

sometimes, in order to take 2 steps forward, you have to take a step backwards. And to be honest, DCI has taken many steps forward in some people's eyes, but it really hasn't grown the business.

Bigger is NOT always better

[charlie1223]

does it have to be about modernizing tho? really how much has broadway changed?

Well now its a bit like circus du soleil with Broadway tunes.

[Lance]

do you spend money on things you don't like?

no, i don't. can't speak for luvs.

of course, i acknowledge that lots of other people do buy things I don't like.

your argument comes down to "the majority of people who spend money on drum corps agree with my views," and i'm not quite convinced of that.

[skewerz]

no, i don't. can't speak for luvs.

of course, i acknowledge that lots of other people do buy things I don't like.

your argument comes down to "the majority of people who spend money on drum corps agree with my views," and i'm not quite convinced of that.

in a niche market like drum corps, and with the number of fans there are, it doesn't have to be the majority...25% fan loss would kill dci...especially if it's the 25% that donates the most, which, considering which fans are disenchanted, is quite possible.

[JimF-LowBari]

Well now its a bit like circus du soleil with Broadway tunes.

You mean the Spiderman musical with extra pricy tickets, cast members getting wiped out in rehearsals and OSHA checking everything out? Last I read in NY Daily News they were cutting back on the stunts before someone got killed.

[audiodb]

Thinking you can put the genie back in the bottle re: ticket pricing is a non-starter, as is the idea that you can get a full staff on tour with a corps for even less than it's being done now. Most staff members traveling with corps are already doing it for honoraria; thinking you can get them to do it for even less ain't gonna work.

Once again, I haven't said anything about ticket prices. Same goes for staff pay. Do you even read my posts? Or do you just paint everyone with whom you disagree with the same broad brush?

The bar has been established; the question now is what to do to make it worth while. DCI's current approach clearly isn't working as well as it could, which means that it's time for something bigger and better, not smaller and cheaper. I've seen enough non-profits who tried answering big changes by scaling themselves back to bare bones, and in every single case, the organization ended up folding soon after. I see no reason to believe that DCI and the corps who make up the organization would be an exception to that rule.

You're growing or you're dying, and there's not much middle ground.

Paraphrasing: The sky is falling. Change or die.

I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you run your ideas by the directors of the top corps? Seriously....what you are ultimately suggesting is a format substantially different from that of DCI, so different that it deviates from DCI's mission. Clearly, it will only happen if interested corps pursue it outside of DCI. From the looks of recent proposals, there must be some among the G7 that would be receptive to your ideas....and in need of someone with experience and contacts in the new venues this shift would take them to.