soccerguy315 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Just want to add: Now corps can finally be judged on how well they can manage with the talent level of the designers and audio engineers when it comes to corps balance. They can't point the finger at anything or anyone this season except for themselves. Every single corps has NO excuse to have "severe" balance issues. And if there are issues, points CAN and SHOULD be deducted because the idea of a "perfect balance" with synths and the corps can now be expected because of the rule change. It should NOW be about who has the better balance and who doesn't regardless of synthesizers or tools. By maxing out complete control of the "balance issue" it levels the playing field across all corps and judges don't have to feel intimidated to deduct points for balance issues in the synth/elecronics.... why? because perfection is hypothetically attainable now with this rule change... only "error" is human error, which is what is being judged in the first place. unfortunately, a staff member controls the balance, right? Design is already judged heavier than execution, and now the staff is also responsible for part of the execution. Seems like most of the judging is related to the staff, and the kids actually marching have less and less control over their score Edited February 28, 2011 by soccerguy315 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostrauser Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Design is already judged heavier than execution I feel just the opposite. I thought Crown had the best DESIGN in DCI each of the past two years, especially in 2009. The corps that won (both years) was the corps with the best execution. If anything, IMO, design isn't judged heavily enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 And again, that still is an issue. Cavies and Bluecoats were WAY too much on Friday night last year when I was sitting down low. But they were more tolerable on Saturday, when I was up in section 6,000,000 nursing my nosebleed. Didn't see the Cavies live last year. Coats at TCNJ were just fine...sounded great, actually. It was my favorite Coats show and corps ever, actually. Could a corps have balance issues? Sure. Happens and happened all the time, before and after amps and synths. I would never claim otherwise. Doesn't mean the mere existence of something is bad...just a particular moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Didn't see the Cavies live last year. Coats at TCNJ were just fine...sounded great, actually. It was my favorite Coats show and corps ever, actually. Could a corps have balance issues? Sure. Happens and happened all the time, before and after amps and synths. I would never claim otherwise. Doesn't mean the mere existence of something is bad...just a particular moment. No, Hroth is right. Down low last summer was painful. If they're going to be balanced for a live audience, they have work to do. I'm sure it'll happen, but it hasn't yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Plenty of fans are still coming...esp in this economy it is pretty decent...hhhmmmmm you keep thinking that. DCI knows otherwise. if they didn't, you wouldn't see the Cesario push, the TOC and other things being done to boost business 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 And again, that still is an issue. Cavies and Bluecoats were WAY too much on Friday night last year when I was sitting down low. But they were more tolerable on Saturday, when I was up in section 6,000,000 nursing my nosebleed. and Friday night was the night they, uh, experimented with controlling it from off the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 That will never happen... The instructors have the kids handcuffed as far as really getting out there and melting faces. I was watching the old vids the other night and was really kind of taken back when I saw the amount of air and physical effort put into the playing... I mean how many times today do the kids get to hear from the staff... "Ok folks, this time I really want you to MAKE IT FLY?" (Wayne Downey btw he meant VOLUME ) you won't get that again. visual demand rules the game, and something has to be sacrificed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It will get better no matter what. The reason for the recent rule proposal passing was because directors KNEW that the balance was a problem... They complained they didn't have the tools necessary to make the electronics sound as GOOD as possible from the stands. Now, they do. And I can't think of anything better then having the control guy in the stands. This rule proposal and its unanimous passing (I think it was unanimous) means that designers/directors have higher standards for what they want the electronics to sound like. IF for whatever reason this year the electronics STILL do not meet the standard that directors set for themselves then there is little another rule change can do to improve the balance. This recent rule change is the last thing corps can do. There isn't anything in terms of "tools to control balance" that CAN be improved after this rule proposal. So, this year will be a very critical year: judges will be expecting better balance because they know directors now have all the tools they asked for, and the directors will also be expecting better balance because they feel that this new tool was the only thing lacking in achieving better balance. Those that do not achieve better balance will now be looked at as having a performing error and NOT a lack of technology error. Those that achieve better balance will in fact prove that A&E can be effective when given all of its proper tools for manipulation. Thus, finally, corps will be given proper scores for their balance issues when it comes to electronics. For example, BD set the standard for what is the best brass. All the other corps were based off of that technique and style because to the judges it was Superior. If BD masters electronic balance THIS year, it is now a performance aspiration just like "best brass". The Judge can say "If BD's brass can play like that and get a 10, then I will hold all other corps to that standard with BD being the corps to beat.... SOOO... If BD A&E can sound that balance, and all corps have ALL the tools they asked for, then I will hold all other corps to that standard with BD being the corps to beat..." Corps that can't handle, live up to, or surpass the level of "electronic balance" implemented by BD (or the best balanced corps of 2011) will either lose points in music ensemble or should drop the synth entirely and hope they can achieve a better balanced sound without a synth. **Just using BD as an example** Sorta confusing... sorry... but hopefully you get the point. any judge with common sense and a feeling of job security will not take a stand big enough to affect change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 any judge with common sense and a feeling of job security will not take a stand big enough to affect change. See, the problem I have with that line of thinking is that it extends well beyond just judging synth. What you seem to imply is that judges out and out fear repercussions from the staffs of the corps they judge if they give them a negative. Don't you think we'd have seen some judging turnover if that was the case by now? I mean, Hopkins should've single-handedly canned every judge since 2005 by now, no? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 See, the problem I have with that line of thinking is that it extends well beyond just judging synth. What you seem to imply is that judges out and out fear repercussions from the staffs of the corps they judge if they give them a negative. Don't you think we'd have seen some judging turnover if that was the case by now? I mean, Hopkins should've single-handedly canned every judge since 2005 by now, no? the problem is this: the designers feel they need it. To them it's perfect. And if it's bad, and to truly send a message, a judge can't just drop 1/2 tenths. Show long balance, of the say painful Crown 09 Allentown variety needs a message of, oh say a point. Once, once I saw a judge in DCi do this. Bluecoats 08 Allentown, the 2nd Perc judge. Most of the Allentown panel worked finals week. That guy didn't. I remember a story about a WGI judge doing it once too, and no longer working there because the Ind. Worlds raised holy hell. There's negative with a couple of tenths drop, or a comment that may hurt feelings. There's truly a difference between that and saying "your balance for the whole show was horrible, and I'm sorry, but welcome back to box 4 tonight". I loved Crown 09. But that night at Allentown, 20 some ros off the field, I COULDNT HEAR THE HORNLINE at times. that hornline was covered up by the pit's volume. 19 something in ensemble music?? I know people on the 20's who said it was painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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