Mello Dude Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 One of the things that saddens me about the use of synths to double the tubas, is that I can no longer tell which corps have powerful contras (tubas), and which don't. Phantom 1989 was the most powerful contra line I ever heard. It is becoming clear to me that in my experience as a fan, that is unlikely to ever be eclipsed - not because there won't be (or hasn't been) a more powerful tuba line, but because I won't be able to know it because of TG. That is, either: 1) the goo will be poorly blended and will cover up the contras (tubas), or 2) the goo will be so expertly blended that it will boost the contras and I won't be able to tell if the power is coming from the contras or the synths. Of course, the on field judge, who is on the opposite side of the speakers, will be able to hear and assess the contra line. But from a fan's vantage point, from now on I will forever be wondering if that big low end horn sound is really real or the product of electronic trickery. Sorry, but I believe that I will always prefer the purity of all-acoustic drumcorps. I'm also deeply grateful to have heard Phantom's New World Symphony without synths. I have to say I heard Madison's 20 tubas unplugged for a rehearsal and it was pretty nice! Unfortunately..the goo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Well, if that's truly the case, then I say the judges ban together and give the number they feel is appropriate. If that knocks all corps using synth poorly down a point, so be it. DCI cannot afford to be hiring/training new pro-synth-regardless judges, and we're all aware of that. No judges, no competition. No competition, no DCI. there is only thing I see possibly affecting the corps mindset on this issue: $$$ and the recent lack of hasn't done much to shape their thinking, so don't see me positive it would work here. Let's be honest. Most stadiums arent of the Allentown or pick a dome variety. In many stadiums DCI performs in, many of the seats are in the "power alley". Those folks will be blown away. I mean even pro synth people complain about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 C'mon Jeff. If judges think this is an issue, if directors think this is an issue, if DCI administrators think this is an issue then they would of course be discussing it and resolving it! There are always disagreements about how to judge every caption. You need to define what perfection is each year and that's what the judges and directors decide on. With the new equipment, its only logical that the standard of "perfection" will be higher. I'm sure directors and judges can agree on that for 2011. That's WHY thy suggested a rule proposal, because they wanted the standards to be HIGHER. You'll see a big difference in the way ensemble music caption is judged this year. well, the example of a unit doing it resulted in their worst balance of the week in Indy. and if they all don't think it's an issue, fine. Fan surveys are telling them otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Jeff is absolutely correct. You do understand that if some judge were to penalize a top 8 corps for goo that they would be gone? Can you IMAGINE, for some reason the amps and synth were making a HORRENDOUS sound at an important show and the corps actually got docked for it? after all, wasn't it the Cadets the other year that had a spectacular sound system crash and their score still went up a decent chunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 well, the example of a unit doing it resulted in their worst balance of the week in Indy. and if they all don't think it's an issue, fine. Fan surveys are telling them otherwise Of course they think its an issue. Why else would they discuss a rule change proposal about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 This notion that the DCI judges have been intimidated into a silent conspiracy on this alleged "goo" doesn't hold water. It's a convenient theory if you're bent against amps and synths. But every judge empowered to judge ensemble sound ignoring ensemble imbalance? That sounds to me like we're two players short of a duet. Or at least one short. well who makes the rules? the corps. who tells the judges what to judge? the corps What's more likely is something far less nefarious. First, we can't rule out the possibility that the judges don't dislike the synthetic sounds the way some here do. I know this is a tough concept for some in the DCP echo chamber to accept, but some of us don't hear what you do. I'm on record in this thread as saying in nine shows last summer, it didn't occur to me that this "goo" y'all refer to was something worth commenting on. I'm sure others feel the same. Maybe the judges too. IMo, it's far worse inside than outside, but it's also a factor in smaller stadiums. If you are anywhere below 2/3 of the way down in many stadiums, it's an issue, even the big ones. But even granting the existence of and distaste for some "goo," there are explanations other than conspiracy to explain why this doesn't figure on the judges sheets. We also have to recall that we don't tic anymore. Negative "goo" instances might actually figure into the scoring though not in the hang-Quaddafi-from–the-streetlamp fashion y'all would like. The "goo" is one of many factors in ensemble sound that factor into the scoring. In a tic-less world it's not necessary to call out "goo" any more than any other incremental shortcoming. Indeed, the judging emphasis is on achievement, which necessarily means the judges are focused (and commenting) more on what's going well. yes goo is one of many factors. but if it is covering up the battery and/or brass, that's an issue, and that does happen Another explanation could be that if all the corps are "goo-ing" equally, then there is no scoring effect to notice. Judging after all is a comparative exercise. To the extent that all the corps are good, bad or otherwise in this category, there is less for the judges to compare. If I'm hearing y'all right, everyone is guilty. If that's the case, there is little differentiation for the judges to make. not everyone is guilty, at least to the same degree. Every year it seems some are worse than others. In any event, the best explanation is the judges, like many of us in the crowd, actually like the way drum corps sounds today. It's not that this "goo" doesn't exist. It's just that it exists as one minor voice in a heavenly chorus that – maybe not incidentally – happens to use Bb instruments, electronic amplification and music major players. It's possible. More possible than DCI brownshirts cowing judges into silence. HH hey be happy you like it. since the crowds are getting smaller, you'll be able to keep getting better seats every year. But trust me, the judges don't make up the rules. they follow what is dictated to them by DCI. and who is DCI? Why the voting corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottgordon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Of course they think its an issue. Why else would they discuss a rule change proposal about it? I'm curious, if the main reason for the proposal was to help ensure that the corps performed with appropriate balance, why will it be a staff member controlling the sound board? Why not a corps member? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcibrando Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 This is EXACTLY why for the first time in many many many years I did not buy the DVD's or CD's. I downloaded lots of mid-season audio and watched webcast shows but the synth "noise" on nice brass chords drove me nuts an ruined the sound/blend...especially at the end of the shows when they just try to make it as loud and obnoxious as they can. I'm still ok with using it in places, but if they can't do it any more musical than this, get rid of it or nail their music score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubaJon Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Check this out! What if at least at Allentown, there is no synth allowed? just give me one show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Check this out! What if at least at Allentown, there is no synth allowed? just give me one show! Why would they EVER do such a thing. It would be like saying that at one show there are no trumpets allowed, or no snares. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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