Cadets2

[classicslv]

Oh boy,

I hope this doesn't mean I will be receiving TWICE AS MANY phone calls, emails and mail for more Alumni donations to my Maroon & Gold membership. It was bad enough when I started receiving sponsorship letters from other drum corps members just because they were associated with YEA.

[Grumpy]

I know many don't agree with me, but I don't think that the primary point of Cadets2 is to be a feeder corps for Cadets. I think the primary purpose is to allow members who don't have the time/money for a summer tour to be able to have a Cadet experience.

Even back when I marched (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth ) the majority of the Cadet members flew in to camp.....this is a very different demographic than they're looking at for Cadets2.

Now of course, there could be members from Cadets2 who then go on to march Cadets....but I don't think it's the point of creating the unit.

From their announcement and from what I know about the organization, my guess is that they're trying to create more opportunities for members, not make Cadets more competitive to make the line.

I guess I'm one of the "many" who don't agree with you, but I think the whole rationale behind C2 is to create a Cadets feeder corps...they used to have one, it was called Crossmen (IMO, anyway). After they went their separate way, I'm sure GH started trying to figure out how he could create another feeder corps, but maybe not with the same expense involved as a full touring WC corps. Even if he wanted to, he couldn't go with an OC corps...especially after the G8 fiasco from last year. He made his feelings on OC pretty clear, and I don't see him publicly retracting them.

He's already stated that they will share instructors AND music...which leads me to believe that if somebody from the Cadets goes down mid-season, they can and will quickly pull someone from C2 to fill the spot. I believe that is one of the main reasons for the "under 22" policy. As has been mentioned previously, marching C2 also helps to ingrain the Cadets culture into potential future members of the DCI unit.

What I am interested to see is how DCA audiences will respond to a "DCI type" show, if that is the direction that C2 chooses to take with their show design (and I would be absolutely astounded if they didn't).

[classicslv]

More likely is that the Cadets are trying to take control of their own feeder program instead of leaving it up to other organizations. The fact that it's 22 and under makes it pretty clear that they are going to consider this their primary training ground for future Cadets (DCI), much like BDB and SCVC. With that comes certain expectations, the most obvious being that they'd want to make the experience as streamlined as possible between the two groups to facilitate smooth transitions for students from Cadets2 to The Cadets. This represents a unique training opportunity for the cadets, and I'm sure that as a world class organization they've thought long and hard about how to maximize their return on this endeavor.

I think you got it right. If you are turning people away becuase of size limits, then why not start your own feeder corps. After all, how many of those that do not make the cut end up not marching at all. At least this gives another option. If they have the turnout then I say go for it. I wonder what the cost difference is between CADETS & CADETS2? Im sure it is huge as well as the time commitment and ability to work during the week while still getting a drum corps experience. In the end it's the same tan for a lower cost. LOL

Just a reply to a different post regarding the "Crossmen" as a Cadet's feeder program that didn't take. The difference is 100% in the name. When the Crossmen joned YEA there was still that feeling of the "red headed step child" and not being good enough for CORP1 so you go to CORP2. CADET2 is a smart way to accept members that left back then because they were not auditioning for "Crossmen" and felt slighted. This way they would still in the end be a CADET.

All the hype around the Cadets2 is simply because of the name. If this was an entirely new DCA corps with no affiliation to YEA or CADETS they would probably be supported and welcomed with open arms. Just by using the CADET2 name, people are already holding them up to higher expectations but only time will tell.

Edited May 6, 2011 by classicslv

[Jeff Ream]

Lets face it. A out of area corps that only does championships and does not make finals AINT making a whole heck of money. Probably losing money hand over fist is probably a more accurate statement. Now if you are in the back yard of many of the DCA shows that PAY!!! its a secondary consideration.

Other regions are not paying so doing Judged Exhibition just makes sense for a lot of out or towners.

I think you over estimate how NE shows pay without certain names attached

[Jeff Ream]

You mean Cadets have ties to the "Great Satan", "Dark Side", "Group that Tries to Relive I'ts Glory"... OK, I never knew that... and makes my post meaningless...

Not just Cadets Jim

[mingusmonk]

In one way, I see Cadets2 as a relief for the other Northeast DCA corps. Just when it looked like a majority of the Top 10 corps might come from outside the traditional Northeastern US, Cadets2 steps in and may get one of the top 10 voting member spots. So much for moving DCA out of the Northeastern US. It's curious that finals are moving to Annapolis the year that Cadets2 is set to debut....

2011 Member Corps - Top 10 N.American corps

Buccs - northeast

MBI - midwest

Empire - northeast

Hurcs - northeast

Cabs - northeast

Alliance - south

Corps Vets - south

Bush - northeast

Renegades - west

Fusion - northeast

Cadets2 - a 7th northeastern vote if they make the Top 10 at DCA Annapolis.

So, assuming they make Top 10, then you are assuming they bump a non NE corps. That's a lot of assuming.

[irishbugle]

I'm pretty sure it's the former.

Let's be clear, DCA is largely just a regional circuit. Most activity is focused around the Northeast, and there it has a relatively small (if not loyal) following. Within the pageantry activity, it's one of the least influential circuits. It doesn't push the boundaries of the activity, it doesn't introduce a lot of new or original music, and it doesn't draw a large number of people from around the globe. It's mostly just a regional activity, with regional influence.

So with all that said, I am going to go out on a limb and say that GH doesn't give a hot #### about the DCA concept, or the all-age paradigm. He just wanted to quickest, easiest, cheapest option for him to put together a feeder corps in this locale so that he can boost his flagship corps. Let's not get it twisted here, GH is a smart guy, and any move he makes is going to be leveraged in a way that brings success to all his programs, especially his flagship program.

From the business side of things, it's a very smart and calculated move. If he plays his cards right he'll have an army of recruits to choose from for the cadets, and will successfully change the DCA model to fit his needs.

From the business side of things, it's a very smart and calculated move. If he plays his cards right he'll have an army of recruits to choose from for the cadets, and will successfully change the DCA model to fit his needs.

And thats OK?????????

Its ok to walk into a circuit with a richer heritage and longer history than DCI and trash it just for GH's flagship's success?? I'm not saying thats going to happen, but if it does... I think GH and the whole YEA program will make alot more enemies than friends.

I understand operating a corps within DCI and DCA is to a certain extent, a "business". But IMO NOTHING should ever be put before the education and experience of the performers within the group, or the surrounding groups.

Your correct about DCA being largely a regional circuit within the northeast (but lets not forget the ties to the midwest, west, and south with corps like Carolina Gold, MBI, San Fransisco Renegades, Alliance.... etc..) but your incorrect about DCA having a small following. DCA attracts members and fans from all over the world. While a regular competition will not attract as many viewers as a DCI show, there is still a decent sized following. Go attend DCA finals in Rochester, or the Grand Prix when it was still in Clifton and then tell me DCA has a small following. Those stadiums are sold out!!! I remember one year when Cabs had their Grand Prix in Clifton, then the Cadets had their show there a few weeks later and the Grand Prix had a better attendance than the Cadets show.

And new music is introduced as regularly in DCA as DCI so your conclusions are completely incorrect there also.

Have you been to a DCA show in the last 3 years or are you relying on information from someone else?

Edited May 6, 2011 by irishbugle

[GUARDLING]

And thats OK?????????

Its ok to walk into a circuit with a richer heritage and longer history than DCI and trash it just for GH's flagship's success?? I'm not saying thats going to happen, but if it does... I think GH and the whole YEA program will make alot more enemies than friends.

I understand operating a corps within DCI and DCA is to a certain extent, a "business". But IMO NOTHING should ever be put before the education and experience of the performers within the group, or the surrounding groups.

Your correct about DCA being largely a regional circuit within the northeast (but lets not forget the ties to the midwest, west, and south with corps like Carolina Gold, MBI, San Fransisco Renegades, Alliance.... etc..) but your incorrect about DCA having a small following. DCA attracts members and fans from all over the world. While a regular competition will not attract as many viewers as a DCI show, there is still a decent sized following. Go attend DCA finals in Rochester, or the Grand Prix when it was still in Clifton and then tell me DCA has a small following. Those stadiums are sold out!!! I remember one year when Cabs had their Grand Prix in Clifton, then the Cadets had their show there a few weeks later and the Grand Prix had a better attendance than the Cadets show.

And new music is introduced as regularly in DCA as DCI so your conclusions are completely incorrect there also.

Have you been to a DCA show in the last 3 years or are you relying on information from someone else?

I think your #s are a bit off. Some DCA shows do ok but in general I believe #s are down as well across the board in the activity. My qustion to you is when you said he walks in and Trashes it...do you mean help to change it? Make it more to his liking? Go against the grain of DCA? HMMMMM I remember being the rebel, doing something different, even show concept wise setting a DIFFERENT standard ( Bush / Sun / West shore in the 90s) was a good thing.

[JimF-LowBari]

Not just Cadets Jim

Oh that I did know. Just having fun with some of GHs words that I've seen quoted on here...

[MarimbaManiac]

And thats OK?????????

Yup.

Its ok to walk into a circuit with a richer heritage and longer history than DCI and trash it just for GH's flagship's success?? I'm not saying thats going to happen, but if it does... I think GH and the whole YEA program will make alot more enemies than friends.

Again, Yup.

I understand operating a corps within DCI and DCA is to a certain extent, a "business". But IMO NOTHING should ever be put before the education and experience of the performers within the group, or the surrounding groups.

...and how does introducing new media and instruments devalue the members experiences?

Your correct about DCA being largely a regional circuit within the northeast (but lets not forget the ties to the midwest, west, and south with corps like Carolina Gold, MBI, San Fransisco Renegades, Alliance.... etc..) but your incorrect about DCA having a small following. DCA attracts members and fans from all over the world. While a regular competition will not attract as many viewers as a DCI show, there is still a decent sized following. Go attend DCA finals in Rochester, or the Grand Prix when it was still in Clifton and then tell me DCA has a small following. Those stadiums are sold out!!! I remember one year when Cabs had their Grand Prix in Clifton, then the Cadets had their show there a few weeks later and the Grand Prix had a better attendance than the Cadets show.

And new music is introduced as regularly in DCA as DCI so your conclusions are completely incorrect there also.

Have you been to a DCA show in the last 3 years or are you relying on information from someone else?

I've been to both DCA and DCI Finals each summer for the last 4 years (and beyond, just not as often).

Sure the DCA stadium is full, but it's a small stadium. Yes the circuit attracts SOME people from around the country, but nothing compared to DCI, WGI, or even BOA. Your assertions in regards to DCA's influence are inflated. Nothing NEW happens at DCA, it's all a rehashing of tunes and concepts that have already been done in the activity. New music is RARELY IF EVER heard in DCA, and new concepts and techniques are out of the question.

It's quite a culture shock when you sit on a DCA corps design team, and you're told, "now we can't think too far out of the box, because it won't play well at DCA", as opposed to when you're sitting on a WGI group design team, and you're told "What can we do that's NEVER been done before". As a composer, as an educator, and as someone who enjoys being TRULY creative, that is the most exciting process.