Cadets2

[Fran Haring]

Fran, it is a performing art. It involves Music, which is a performing art, and integrated visual elements and concepts that artists use as part of their visual vocabulary. Line. Form. Color, Rhythm. Except the art is far more kinetic than a painting or piece of sculpture.

It can even involve dance, another performing art.

Maybe, what you're saying, is-- should it be treated and thought of as the same art or at the same level as a symphony orchestra concert or a Picasso hanging on a museum wall? That's a good question. I don't really have an answer, only kind of one.

Hey, a velvet painting of Elvis, Dogs Playing Poker, or guys that take a chainsaw and cut a bear's head out of a log are art, too.

I'd like to think of the activity as decidedly a few cuts above above Elvis on Velvet. The real problem is when the shades or aspirations or pretentiousness begin to approach the Met, the emphasis on being too pretentious and self-serving.

Great point, W. That's what I do not care for at all, when it comes to the placement of drum corps in the world of art, in general. So yes, I did learn something from your post. LOL.

A few years back, there was a post on another forum on DCP...I don't recall the exact wording... but the gist of the post was that corps who played certain types of music or programmed certain types of shows were, in effect, "selling out" and were on the level of a mere "entertainer."

I thought then... geez, I wish drum corps as a whole ROSE to the level of "entertainers" such as Frank Sinatra, Canadian Brass, and so forth and so on... whose mastery of their particular performance art was/is second to none... and certainly far above the level of any drum corps at any time, as much as I enjoy drum corps... but who also knew how/know how to put paying customers in the seats on a large scale on a consistent basis.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Fran Haring

[Fran Haring]

How my above post has anything to do with the thread topic... well, it really doesn't.

I think Bariman50 is correct. This thread is heading off into another galaxy.

If this Cadets2 thing gets off the ground, then good for them, and welcome to DCA!

Edited May 7, 2011 by Fran Haring

[thirdcoast]

How my above post has anything to do with the thread topic... well, it really doesn't.

I think Bariman50 is correct. This thread is heading off into another galaxy.

If this Cadets2 thing gets off the ground, then good for them, and welcome to DCA!

Yep, after reading all the posts from both threads, I think you are right... DCA will change in 2012 with the addition of c2, trust me...get out and enjoy the 2011 season, lets just hope that the change is for the better. Seeing how many people this has brought out of the woodwork and may be going to shows this summer, I think it already has. I like to rile things up every once and awhile, but if this puts more fans in the stands, or on DCP, or whatever, it is well worth it. This thread has some of the best reading I have ever seen on DCP, to me it's because you all are what makes Drum and Bugle Corps great today, in the eyes of thousands of kids. The kids in DCI talk a whole lot about the HISTORY of Drum and Bugle Corps, you all are it. Thanks for the great read. Dont think for a minute that the kids today dont find you all important, they for sure... do.

Long Live Drum and Bugle Corps!

[JimF-LowBari]

My God, enough with this thread, its just constant bickering about something that may or may not make one difference in the scheme of things. DCA has rules and if a new corps adheres to them and is admitted, that's that. I've never seen so much chatter about something so insignificant.....................

Don't ya love the off season...

For me, more corps, more people marching, more butts in the seats...... What's the problem since, as you stated, DCA has rules. And other corps have had "different" shows while being within the rules. (That is if C2 has a show that will be that different from the rest of the DCA world. My prediction is more a "chop 'n bop" style which might be the biggest difference.. biggum deal <saracasm>.) And if people use C2 as their bathroom/hot dog/beer/cig break corps, there are others who will take those breaks with other corps.

My biggest hope for C2 is they are big enough to make the Open Class as we need more corps there.

[2B or not 2B]

Is Drum Corps Art - Yes, silly to think otherwise. In the "Performing Arts" area of things.

Is Drum Corps a Sport. - Yes, it is judged as to who may be better than another. (and you better be phyysicly in shape).

Is Drum Corps a Business - Yes, you better have your accounts in order, or you will be gone.

Is Drum Corps a Education - Yes, in too many ways to count. From the smallest to the largest group.

So we get to the OTHER part, that seems to be a Problem. The Entertainment part. That is the area Most dis-agreement comes in. If you have all the above. This is the area where You must Sell your product. We know as a FACT both DCI and DCA both have a Top 10, to die for. So it is a matter of. What the Public wants to PAY FOR.

What this C2 may or may not do to the Overall Future of DCA. (BUT PLEASE remember I do understand the they: "Have Every Right to do as they wish". They should do what ever is best for them.)

I just worry that More DCI in DCA is Not the answer. And they WILL be as DCI as you can be, and still be in DCA. The Cadets are a Top World Class group. GH and YEA are overall a Very well run Orgaization. I very much believe if they start C2. It will not fail.

So to DCI liking people.

I say the following.I just do not think telling people: you are Dumb, Stupid, living in the past, is a good idea for growth. Telling people (and it has been said too many times to count.) "If you don't like it. Stay home, Go away! We are the future". Also Not good for growth.Rewarding one way of doing things as is done in DCI now. Is no different than when DCI was founded to get away from the One Way they had at that time. That is why I favor DCA. Where at least there is better Variety. AND all is rewarded. DCA is growing Nationaly and yes, Internationly for the last 10 years. Where as we can debate forever if DCI is Growing or NOT.

So if the top part of this is taken care of. Just try to remember:

You are NOT - The Chicago Philharmonic Orchestra.

You are NOT - The Green Bay Packers.

You are NOT - Yahoo, Google or Dell.

You are NOT - Harvard or Stanford.

You Better be Enteraining.

You ARE Drum Corps, and you better sell yourself to a "Ticket Buying Public"Selling Tickets and being Entertaining to an ever Larger group, "IS" what is Important. They are the Final Judge.

Edited May 8, 2011 by 2B or not 2B

[BigW]

To bring this back to topic, LOL...

Fran brings up another point. Being an "entertainer". I do believe we as corps performers are making every effort to pierce the fourth wall and reach out to the audience and draw them into what's being performed. Sometimes, the vehicle or aesthetic makes that difficult to achieve, or sometimes, the group just doesn't quite have that talent- but the effort is genuinely there.

It's not "selling out" to attempt to make people happy by any means- the trick si to remember that there's an "Effect Triad" that's a mantra for show designers. The best entertainers, I don't care who they are and in what field- combine Emotional, Intellectual, and Aesthetic effects to make them exciting to the audience.

When all three work simultaneouly, it's powerful. Some groups emphasize one or two of these things more than the others as part of their "Brand" and identity. I see this when I've been going to recent DCA contests. The corps are more "different" than some like to claim. I haven't felt like I'm watching a bunch of non-descript and bland programs when I've been in the crowd, whether Class A or Open.

From reading some of the quotes from YEA, they seem to be making an honest and deliberate effort to create an accessible, enjoyable program for C2 to perform at DCA contests. I'll wait until the rubber meets the road to see if they deliver on that objective. Talk all you want, but I'll wait till they walk the walk.

[JimF-LowBari]

So I guess we gotta wait to see the show before anyone sez: "That ain't Drum Corps"????

s/ Guy who heard in in 1975 and those tink tink marching bells.....

PS - Art... Schmart... (and he ain't a PA Dutchman I know). if I like it , if I don't like it I go somewhere else....

Edited May 8, 2011 by JimF-LowBari

[BigW]

So I guess we gotta wait to see the show before anyone sez: "That ain't Drum Corps"????

s/ Guy who heard in in 1975 and those tink tink marching bells.....

PS - Art... Schmart... (and he ain't a PA Dutchman I know). if I like it , if I don't like it I go somewhere else....

Jim, there is good art, and bad art. I'd venture most people have a common-sense enough BS detector to know when you see both. People are allowed to have different reactions to the same piece of music or work of art, whatever. There usually is a consensus about the better stuff, and the worst stuff. Its the stuff in between. Most people at a corps contest can usually figure out who won, and who was last, of that I'm pretty certain. It's 2-3-4 where they get confuzzled.

And yeah, you gotta see the show first before you decide whether it's you know what or shinola in all fairness. After we see it, we'll talk about it over a cold one then. For all I know, I could be writing a review that C2's the greatest thing since sliced bread and canned pickles. If it is, I will.

[MikeD]

I guess I'm one of the "many" who don't agree with you, but I think the whole rationale behind C2 is to create a Cadets feeder corps...they used to have one, it was called Crossmen (IMO, anyway). After they went their separate way, I'm sure GH started trying to figure out how he could create another feeder corps, but maybe not with the same expense involved as a full touring WC corps. Even if he wanted to, he couldn't go with an OC corps...especially after the G8 fiasco from last year. He made his feelings on OC pretty clear, and I don't see him publicly retracting them.

Crossmen members and staff have posted over and over that this statement is just not true.

He's already stated that they will share instructors AND music...which leads me to believe that if somebody from the Cadets goes down mid-season, they can and will quickly pull someone from C2 to fill the spot. I believe that is one of the main reasons for the "under 22" policy. As has been mentioned previously, marching C2 also helps to ingrain the Cadets culture into potential future members of the DCI unit.

Hoppy was just bouncing some potential music idea around, most of it from Cadet shows of long ago.

What I am interested to see is how DCA audiences will respond to a "DCI type" show, if that is the direction that C2 chooses to take with their show design (and I would be absolutely astounded if they didn't).

It has happened many times in the past, going back to the Sunrisers in the 70's and Bushwackers later on, right through to the current Buccs.

[MikeD]

I understand operating a corps within DCI and DCA is to a certain extent, a "business". But IMO NOTHING should ever be put before the education and experience of the performers within the group, or the surrounding groups.

IMO that s WHY he is choosing DCA for his weekend only non-touring corps. DCA provides a great experience at a lower cost in $$$ and time for the members they are looking to attract.