Cadets2

[Jeff Ream]

Like what? Please tell me what tunes DCA corps have played that no other corps has played.

I don't recall the Glad pieces in Hurcs show being done in DCI. Hawthorne was quasi original not played in DCI. Kidsgrove's stuff I don't recall hearing before. Same for Alliance or Bush. Same for Sun Devils, SoCal Dream and I believe Cincinnati.

What winter groups have you been watching? Most WGI groups only practice on the weekends, and only from October to April (as opposed to December through September like most DCA groups). Stop trying to make excuses. The difference stems from the design process and goals, not the rehearsal time.

Several. It's called some Independent units go Friday night, Saturday and Sunday, and if possible during the week. I've seen first hand how many hours some of these units cram into a weekend, and it far surpasses the hours most if not all DCA corps put in. That's not counting Scholastic Units who do go during the week. Oh and I'm very familiar with how WGI operates.

You can spin it any way you want...but there are MORE people at DCI Finals, and WGI finals across both weekends, than attend DCA finals. Putting it in a smaller venue to make it look fuller doesn't make it better attended.

Where did I say there wasn't more at DCI or WGI, tho Dayton doesn't hold what Rochester does to be honest. That said, there IS something to playing in front of a stadium that looks packed as opposed to one that isn't. DCA and WGI can claim that. DCI can't.

[Jeff Ream]

Well lets look at how I estimate without jumping to conclusions.

Lets say my start up corps is in the NE and there are 5 shows I can do that are within a few hours of my home base. It would behoove me to be a competitive corps because the corps would make SOME money going to these shows.

Now lets say my start up corps is in the South. I have two local shows and neither one of them pays. The only paying show I am going to go to is finals up North. Whats it going to pay me? Not even gas money to get up there. So what is the point of being a competitive corps if you are not going to benefit from it financially??

Going exhibition is a great way for a start up corps to get their foundation built without having to expose the corps to what could be a disappointing competitive season its first year out. Exhibition corps are usually very well received by the spectators and other corps because they are no threat to the competitive corps.

So there are benefits to going exhibition. It would have to be carefully weighed which direction you go with based on the above factors.

Let's not assume your conclusions are right. up here, there are corps that do a "you come to mine I'll come to yours" arrangement. Some non member corps may not get a dime for going to a show.

I gotta be honest Ed, for your supposed knowledge of how things work up here, this is one of those times when, wel, like usual, your regional bias isn't filled with actual facts.

[Jeff Ream]

I agree with alot of what you say as far as the almighty DCI and how what they do becomes better ( in some views ) BUT I cant agree with a few DCA thngs you say. As far as Fans....DCA #s over the years have also gone down drastically. I remember packed stadiums finals night and as Jeff R. said now they go to smaller venues....well sure it looks packed...\its smaller...makes we wonder if Drum corps simply has a out lived a usefulness as it once had. many say DCI doesnt have variety except for 1 or 2 corps well except for a few corps I see that in DCA..always have...some no matter what they do it always seems the same and then some in the middle of their NEW theme show crank out a piece of signature music which had nothing to do with the current program...Does the crowd love it? sure...make sense? well thats a debate. You can count on cheaply made cheezy props from some no matter how well they play also..Now that isnt everyone of course DCA does get a rap for same ole same ole as DCI does for non approachable shows. So they both have had and will always have these fan issues.. After all there are a variety of fans which like a variety of things.Cant please everyone. I say everyone ( corps ) just do you own thing whatever that is sometimes the same ole same ole is successful and sometimes something completely out of left field is and then changes the face of drum corps and its boundries.

well, Rochester is bigger than Scranton was. But hey, DCi keeps trotting out to huge NFl stadiums and doesn't get 20k paid. DCA however goes to a place that holds maybe 8500 and it's close to packed. So if you're on the field, which looks better??

Yes DCA in the 70's pulled in 15-20 at some venues, and let's face it, Rochester promotes DCA better than anywhere. But DCI back then got into the 30k range in huge stadiums and now get half of that. So ARE they better??

[Jeff Ream]

Given. It takes a decent WGI scholastic line at least 15-20,000 to operate with a little breathing room.

wow. if we had spent 10k more we wouldn't have been 6th

[GUARDLING]

well, Rochester is bigger than Scranton was. But hey, DCi keeps trotting out to huge NFl stadiums and doesn't get 20k paid. DCA however goes to a place that holds maybe 8500 and it's close to packed. So if you're on the field, which looks better??

Yes DCA in the 70's pulled in 15-20 at some venues, and let's face it, Rochester promotes DCA better than anywhere. But DCI back then got into the 30k range in huge stadiums and now get half of that. So ARE they better??

Better? No , but what it does show is there is half the amout of people going to drum corps shows in both DCI and DCA from the past. Which may also show it has nothing to do with,whats being played or alot of the excuses you always hear but more sociological. As Ive said for a long time....HAS DRUM CORPS OUT LIVED IT'S PURPOSE, compared to other decades.

Edited May 8, 2011 by GUARDLING

[koldsilver]

I believe that the age limit is not an advantage… it will be a hindrance. What’s the biggest advantage that DCI has over DCA? The touring schedule and practicing 7 days a week. DCA is weekends only.. So now were essentially having kids who didn’t make Cadets most likely because of lack of experience and only giving them weekends to learn. The only thing the age limit accomplishes is creating a lack of Vets in the corps. I fail to see the advantage.

I agree with you 100%.Those are my feelings too.Well said!!!!

[JimF-LowBari]

Jim, there is good art, and bad art. I'd venture most people have a common-sense enough BS detector to know when you see both. People are allowed to have different reactions to the same piece of music or work of art, whatever. There usually is a consensus about the better stuff, and the worst stuff. Its the stuff in between. Most people at a corps contest can usually figure out who won, and who was last, of that I'm pretty certain. It's 2-3-4 where they get confuzzled.

And yeah, you gotta see the show first before you decide whether it's you know what or shinola in all fairness. After we see it, we'll talk about it over a cold one then. For all I know, I could be writing a review that C2's the greatest thing since sliced bread and canned pickles. If it is, I will.

Understood my friend... I just have a hoot throwing out the "That ain't Drum Corps" line that I see from time to time here in various forms. Funny as Hades to me since I first heard it directed against the marching bells.

[JimF-LowBari]

Better? No , but what it does show is there is half the amout of people going to drum corps shows in both DCI and DCA from the past. Which may also show it has nothing to do with,whats being played or alot of the excuses you always hear but more sociological. As Ive said for a long time....HAS DRUM CORPS OUT LIVED IT'S PURPOSE, compared to other decades.

Hmmm, I'd say the purpose has changed with the times but never going to go back to the glory of the past. Way back when corps were a source of local pride and served the local members be it youth or their fathers. Now the bigger corps have changed into a business which is needed due to cost and members from a far reaching area. As for the number of people as compared to the past I'd also say the interest is down as local corps died off and DCs visibility went way downhill. Also the rising costs to operate caused the ticket prices to be in the "ferget about it" range for the common fan.

And as nothing operates in a vacuum, other old time local youth activities have gone down over the decades. Little League, Pee-Wee Football, Scouts, etc have tanked in some areas as the sponsors can't afford the bills, find volunteers (my old church) or sponsors have closed their doors. 15-20 yeas ago youth soccer was huge due to low costs and ability to have low talent kids participate. Now that ain't what it used to be.

And I can bore everyone to tears about the training I had when VP on church council. Sessions were about city churchs, why they are going downhill and what can be done about it. The why would take about 2 pitchers of whatever we're drinking to explain. The what can be done was "Nothing but you can decide to change what you do to meet the changes better". That has given me a better idea of DC over the decades than anything else.

Bottom line - #### happens and #### changes things

Yeah, think I'm actually agreeing with you...

Edited May 8, 2011 by JimF-LowBari

[Jeff Ream]

Better? No , but what it does show is there is half the amout of people going to drum corps shows in both DCI and DCA from the past. Which may also show it has nothing to do with,whats being played or alot of the excuses you always hear but more sociological. As Ive said for a long time....HAS DRUM CORPS OUT LIVED IT'S PURPOSE, compared to other decades.

you're right...and both organizations are looking at that harder, tho, IMO DCA has been more proactive about it over the years.

drum corps hasn't outlived it's purpose. it's purpose has changed, maybe too far in the wrong direction. smarter people than you and I are trying to figure out a way to slide that pendulum back

[GUARDLING]

you're right...and both organizations are looking at that harder, tho, IMO DCA has been more proactive about it over the years.

drum corps hasn't outlived it's purpose. it's purpose has changed, maybe too far in the wrong direction. smarter people than you and I are trying to figure out a way to slide that pendulum back

Smarter? hmmmmmm, i would debate that till the end of time >( plus you dont know if Im one of them do ya..lol) I do think in many ways Drum Corps has out lived its usefullness. Youre right it has changed and that is the key. It does not serve the same person as it did many years ago and definately not with the same intent. That could be a reason for many of the problems. Maybe we think back to much, maybe not enough but many believe the activity or the people it serves are the same as it always was and thats totally not true..Sure there are us, the fans, the staffs, the ones who lived the glory days but thats dead for the most part and gone.

I think DCA may have thought more about some of this only because time runs alot slower in DCA than it does in DCI or anywhere in this activity so progress is a much slower pace. Change with many in this activity is a dirty word and even those who say change is ok usually have a BUT in their statement. Like OH, I DONT MIND CHANGE . I LIKE THE NEW DRILL STYLE, PAGENTRY, COSTUMING, BUT NO WOODWINDS OR ELECTRONICS. ( only an example , there are others examples ) then come up with some lame reason to justify the statement.

NOW, back on the thread subject, C2 will evoke change, controversery, make people think twice when programming their own shows. If people dont think so just look at this thread and all the pages in 2 different places. C2 is doing it already. Even if they never come out, which could happen or not be in top 5 they have moved people already and moving people especially in DCA to me is a good thing.