GUARDLING Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 LOL, I heard griping about lack of Color-Pres too. My first year was the only one I remember seeing "Saluting Officers". Local military would sit at the 50 and stand up and salute everytime the flag went by. Ironic that I learned a lot at the "Decline Of City Churches" training as one of the reasons I quit following corps was so I could devote more time to my council duties and other things. (And you know how bad things are going if I end up Vice President .) Seriously spent my first few years in corps in the Red Carpet Assocation which had corps from towns I still never heard of. Most of them died in the 70s/80s due to rising costs and/or declining economics of the home area. Not much the corps circuit can do when the mill closes and/or lot of the potential members are working weekends to keep the family fed. Think DCA/DCI/RCA/ICA/whoever might have done things better in some ways but any decision is always a crap shoot of what will happen in the future. I will admit in many ways it is sad how so many community programs have gone over the years but besides financing many of those types of thing didnt attract kids or members either anymore..thats even more sad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 This is an interesting observation, and one I hadn't considered. Just a thought but I personally believe has some merit especially if you put aside our own personal attachments to the activity and look at the bigger picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Smarter? hmmmmmm, i would debate that till the end of time >( plus you dont know if Im one of them do ya..lol) I do think in many ways Drum Corps has out lived its usefullness. Youre right it has changed and that is the key. It does not serve the same person as it did many years ago and definately not with the same intent. That could be a reason for many of the problems. Maybe we think back to much, maybe not enough but many believe the activity or the people it serves are the same as it always was and thats totally not true..Sure there are us, the fans, the staffs, the ones who lived the glory days but thats dead for the most part and gone. I think DCA may have thought more about some of this only because time runs alot slower in DCA than it does in DCI or anywhere in this activity so progress is a much slower pace. Change with many in this activity is a dirty word and even those who say change is ok usually have a BUT in their statement. Like OH, I DONT MIND CHANGE . I LIKE THE NEW DRILL STYLE, PAGENTRY, COSTUMING, BUT NO WOODWINDS OR ELECTRONICS. ( only an example , there are others examples ) then come up with some lame reason to justify the statement. NOW, back on the thread subject, C2 will evoke change, controversery, make people think twice when programming their own shows. If people dont think so just look at this thread and all the pages in 2 different places. C2 is doing it already. Even if they never come out, which could happen or not be in top 5 they have moved people already and moving people especially in DCA to me is a good thing. and you never know who consults my views I think however DCI and DCA have realized that some of that shift has hurt, and I see in DCA, and have seen for 10 years more of a push to slowly reverse that...look at the number of Class A corps. You wouldnt have seen that in the 80's. IN DCI, you have some directors pushing for OC to survive and thrive and some wanting them gone all together( Stupid call IMO) DCI, IMO, has pushed too fast too hard, and as a result they suffer more than DCI. 10k to 8k fans hurts DCA yes, but 25k to 15k hurts DCI far worse. I think C2 will do ok, but I'm not making any wild predictions of competitive success or board room chaos yet. i think those in charge are smart enough to see they are walking into a place that could turn on them in a heartbeat. Hop may have influence in DCI, but he won't have that pull in DCA, and he's smart enought o know that. It will make some things interesting. In one way it could be good that no one has mentioned....by association, they may take the enemy #1 target off of Bucs back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 and you never know who consults my views I think however DCI and DCA have realized that some of that shift has hurt, and I see in DCA, and have seen for 10 years more of a push to slowly reverse that...look at the number of Class A corps. You wouldnt have seen that in the 80's. IN DCI, you have some directors pushing for OC to survive and thrive and some wanting them gone all together( Stupid call IMO) DCI, IMO, has pushed too fast too hard, and as a result they suffer more than DCI. 10k to 8k fans hurts DCA yes, but 25k to 15k hurts DCI far worse. I think C2 will do ok, but I'm not making any wild predictions of competitive success or board room chaos yet. i think those in charge are smart enough to see they are walking into a place that could turn on them in a heartbeat. Hop may have influence in DCI, but he won't have that pull in DCA, and he's smart enought o know that. It will make some things interesting. In one way it could be good that no one has mentioned....by association, they may take the enemy #1 target off of Bucs back dont underestimate greed and saving ones own butt OR wanting to be kept around. Happens all the time in this activity, DCI< WGI and DCA .although DCA appears different it is NOT immune to it. I can name names who have taken advantage of logevity by playing the game but wont go there. Usually people from all the arenas know who they are and the smarter ones within the activity know also. Just a fact of life and that hasnt changed in 40 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BX5CM Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) Not so much that but you will see other corps adopting the 16-22 year old rule so they ramp up the visual demand of the show to match what is winning. Just remember, there are two numbers on the sheets... rep and performer. Corps like Bucs, for example, score well on BOTH. They aren't just getting credit purely for the demand of their shows, they can also perform said demand proficiently. The reason that corps like the Buccaneers (and I'm assuming Cadets2 when they take the field) are able to handle more visual demand is because they train their members and strengthen them to handle it ON AN ALL-AGE SCHEDULE. If more DCA corps trained their members as well as the Bucs do, they would be scoring closer to the Bucs... I believe it has very little to do with the age of the members. The reason I think this is that I've marched in senior corps with more modern visual training my entire career, I've also marched beside 50 and 60 year olds that KICK BUTT at it because they embraced the training, really dug in and wanted to be great. Age IS a factor, but not as much as people think. There are older members of Bucs, Cabs, Bush, etc. that embrace these new training methods (just the ones I know of guys, not meaning to disclude any corps) and the older members keep up just fine. So if more members do their homework, learn to move in a way that is credible on the sheets TODAY and do so in a uniform manner... younger will not automatically mean better. Edited May 9, 2011 by BX5CM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 The reason that corps like the Buccaneers (and I'm assuming Cadets2 when they take the field) are able to handle more visual demand is because they train their members and strengthen them to handle it ON AN ALL-AGE SCHEDULE. Also remember, there are two numbers on the sheets... rep and performer and Bucs score well on BOTH. They aren't just getting credit purely for the demand of their shows, they can also perform said demand proficiently. If more DCA corps trained their members as the Bucs do, they would be scoring closer to the Bucs... I believe it has very little to do with the age of the members. The reason I think this is that I've marched in senior corps with more modern visual training my entire career, I've also marched beside 50 and 60 year olds that KICK BUTT at it because they embraced the training, really dug in and wanted to be great. Age IS a factor, but not as much as people think. There are older members of Bucs, Cabs, Bush, etc. that embrace these new training methods (just the ones I know of guys, not meaning to disclude any corps) and the older members keep up just fine. Younger does not automatically mean they will be better or have an advantage. I think I can agree with this and also the flip side is Im sure all of us teaching or taught have had self centered, lazy, self absorbed entitled young people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BX5CM Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) Guardling, How right you are!! Sorry if it sounded like I was hammering on older members, if you take a look at my post in its current state, I changed a lot because I'm not trying to pick on older marching members. I have nothing but respect for a 56 year old man or woman who is still standing out in the sun all summer, sweating and baking along side their fellow corps mates. I was just making the point that good training is good training and since I'm NOT old (yet) I probably notice it more from them than I would from others. Sorry about that. Edited May 12, 2011 by BX5CM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Guardling, How right you are!! Sorry if it sounded like I was hammering on older members, I was just making the point that good training is good training. totally agree with ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BX5CM Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) Here is my question... is this mainly for kids local to the Cadets? How is a high school student from Texas going to take advantage of this program? Where would they stay during the week? Edited May 9, 2011 by BX5CM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Here is my question... is this mainly for kids local to the Cadets? How is a high school student from Texas going to take advantage of this program? Where would they stay during the week? i would think mainly local, unless they do like a student thing where they stay with someone and do some classes for school during the week or work...WORK now theres a concept..lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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