Stu Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I wouldn't call it 'pilfering' when a person decides to move from corps 'A' to corps 'B' (as long as it is done in the accepted manner). Members are consumers...they pay to belong to whichever corps they choose, just as people pay for the products they choose to purchase. I agree with you in principle; corps members are not paid professionals within a trading system, and they certainly do chose where to spend their "dues" akin to where a college student spends their tuition. However we are talking about a highly competitive arena. Is a star sophomore basketball player from University of ** allowed to transfer to Duke his Junior year (out of his own choosing and tuition paid out of his own pocket) and also allowed to instantly play on the Duke varsity basketball team his Junior year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Well, aren't we jumping to conclusions a bit here? I'm not a Hopkins hater at all. And I'm not talking about content. Let's consider a brilliant performer like Miles Davis for example. Probably one of the worst "executing" performers of all time. Yet each note has it's place and can be considered excellent in it's own way. Another example might be the New York Philharmonic under Bernstein. Some of those performances were crass and dirty and the most delicious of all time. Sometimes things can be executed to death, no pun intended but it fits anyway. Excellence is much more than pure execution. When something is executed to death it can become vanilla, methodical, sterile, lifeless, and yes, boring. My remark about excellence at the expense of others was in reference to pilfering the most talented from lesser corps to feed the greater ones. Cannibalism doesn't serve anyone well. It serves no purpose to keep redefining excellence to the point where it just becomes "taste". It's very Clinton-esque...just what do you mean by "is". Dumb game. So I'll stick to my OP -- if you're complaining about "what is played" it's just content. If you're complaining about style, I still think there are objective standards like timing, intonation, balance, blend, uniformity of approach, rhythmic accuracy, etc... that can be applied to any style. This doesn't preclude brass lines from having different characteristic styles. In any case your comment One person's excellence can be another person's useless boring garbage. clearly makes no reference to any of this and instead talks about garbage. If that's not a reference to "What" then perhaps you need re-examine your statement's clarity. As for And when whatever you perceive as excellence comes at the expense of others trying to do the same thing, you are shooting the horse that got you there. This is where drum corps has lost it's way. Lol -- another cryptic quote. Anyhow since you're apparently talking about kids moving from one corps to another -- yep some kids move from corps to corps. Certainly not all do. Some corps are more difficult to make than other corps and a kid might march a 2nd tier corps to get enough experience to make his first choice. It's the way things are and it's probably different than when you marched. What either of these two cryptograms had to with the OT, I haven't a clue. But thanks for playing :-) Edited May 16, 2012 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I agree with you in principle; corps members are not paid professionals within a trading system, and they certainly do chose where to spend their "dues" akin to where a college student spends their tuition. However we are talking about a highly competitive arena. Is a star sophomore basketball player from University of ** allowed to transfer to Duke his Junior year (out of his own choosing and tuition paid out of his own pocket) and also allowed to instantly play on the Duke varsity basketball team his Junior year? A student is paying tuition for an education...playing a varsity sport is (supposed to be) an add-on. ( ) Students have to conform to the policies of the NCAA. As long as they do things within those parameters, everything is fine, just like kids moving from corps A to B. As long as they do it above board and conform to any policies within DCI...whatever they may be...what is the issue? Interesting article on transferring according to NCAA rules... NCAA article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) According to Brasso the audience clearly defines excellence: Therefore the 2005 Cadets flat cannot be considered excellent because many in the audience at finals "booed" their performance and final score. This may come as a shock to you, but as much as you ( and I ) might define The Cadets 2005 show as " excellent " the sheer reality is that general, non Drum Corps audiences ( plural ) would not consider the The 2005 Cadets show as " excellent ". They would consider it weird and unentertaining. We need to step outside of our bubble world here and look at how things really are, nor how we wish they were. A Performing Artist is indeed defined more by the audience. The " audience " for the Cadets 2005 indeed would define this as less than " excellent". You even correctly pointed out that it was even considered less than excellent by ( in your words ).. " many "... of your Drum Corps friends and colleagues in this activity itself that watched it live at Finals in 2005. So I don't know what else to tell you, Stu... I told you that in the Performing Arts, " excellence " is defined by the audience, not the Artist. You have another example here. And thanks for using it as a good illustration. Again, what YOU and I may consider " excellence" may not be shared with wider audiences at all. Nothing wrong with that either. I believe the 2005 Cadets show was Performing Arts " excellence ". A few judges in this exceedingly small niche activity did too. But lets not try and define what " excellence " is FOR OTHERS, Stu. Thats where our personal likes go amiss. I'm pretty sure you would not want others to define in music, art, theatre, movies, dance, singing, etc. what is " excellence " FOR YOU either, Stu... Or would you ? Edited May 16, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 "And when whatever you perceive as excellence comes at the expense of others trying to do the same thing, you are shooting the horse that got you there. This is where drum corps has lost it's way." Lol -- another cryptic quote. Anyhow since you're apparently talking about kids moving from one corps to another -- yep some kids move from corps to corps. Certainly not all do. Some corps are more difficult to make than other corps and a kid might march a 2nd tier corps to get enough experience to make his first choice. It's the way things are and it's probably different than when you marched. I read it as corps copying each other to the point of them becoming more and more the same. Yeah, if you really know the corps you might be able to tell the differences between. But to the less rabid fans or people who show up to the one local show a year, they are looking more and more alike. And if you discovered corps in the 70s..... it's really become "well blended" in both circuits.... As for the crowd defining excellence... let's not confues excellent = really, really entertaining. I walked away from corps in the early 90s after watching some really excellent shows (won't say who). I also watched the may flys kill themselves against the lights cuz the wonderfully executed/excellent shows just bored the crap outta me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibexpercussion Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Traditions help to link those in the present with those in the past, and those to come in the future. It creates a sense of brotherhood/fraternity within an organization, and most of the time do not get in the way of progress, or forward thinking. Really, does anybody want the Cadets to not sing "O Holy Name," the Bluecoats and "Autumn Leaves," or SCV with "Send in the Clowns" Edited May 16, 2012 by ibexpercussion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I read it as corps copying each other to the point of them becoming more and more the same. Yeah, if you really know the corps you might be able to tell the differences between. But to the less rabid fans or people who show up to the one local show a year, they are looking more and more alike. And if you discovered corps in the 70s..... it's really become "well blended" in both circuits.... This is just a function of experience. I listened to corps performance on copies of copied cassette tapes in HS and watched DCI religiously on PBS. That's when I discovered corps. That got me out to a camp. That said -- I have no trouble identifying DCI corps today. If you're away from something, you lose touch with it. What's the surprise there? The only thing that seems "blended" uniformly across all the corps of today is that all of them (a) play a lot better (b) march a lot better © spin a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Traditions help to link those in the present with those in the past, and those to come in the future. It creates a sense of brotherhood/fraternity within an organization, and most of the time do not get in the way of progress, or forward thinking. Really, does anybody want the Cadets to not sing "O Holy Name," the Bluecoats and "Autumn Leaves," or SCV with "Send in the Clowns" Well said. All successful enterprises forge ahead, but respect and cherish the past and its traditions. I'm pretty sure that those that appreciate and cherish Corps and shows of today, will not want the next generation in 30 years to forget them , or not value them as they forge ahead in 2040 or whenever. That said, I have tried to remind my older Drum Corps friends to dial it back a notch the criticisms we sometimes hear from them on today's, show designs and music playing. Its a two way street. If the Legends ( or Dinos if you prefer ) want respect for the older Corps and shows, it might help to give a little more respect to the newer generation, while recognizing the differences over the years. Edited May 16, 2012 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Traditions help to link those in the present with those in the past, and those to come in the future. It creates a sense of brotherhood/fraternity within an organization, and most of the time do not get in the way of progress, or forward thinking. Really, does anybody want the Cadets to not sing "O Holy Name," the Bluecoats and "Autumn Leaves," or SCV with "Send in the Clowns" i think most are talking on the field not off..Off the field and within the corps traditions are made and kept..On the field is quite different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I agree with you in principle; corps members are not paid professionals within a trading system, and they certainly do chose where to spend their "dues" akin to where a college student spends their tuition. However we are talking about a highly competitive arena. Is a star sophomore basketball player from University of ** allowed to transfer to Duke his Junior year (out of his own choosing and tuition paid out of his own pocket) and also allowed to instantly play on the Duke varsity basketball team his Junior year? it can depend on the situation, especially if scholarships are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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