Upgrading the judges

[SynthLine09]

I'd rather see on-field judges just go entirely.

And I think no. 3 is a lame request. As a member, it was a hype to see my staff lose it. I've never seen anyone blatantly do what you are describing

Edited June 7, 2012 by SynthLine09

[bluehull]

I almost literally never notice judges. Then again, I almost never notice the colorguard, and they tend to have a large visual presence... Nothing personal, just a hornline guy.

I do notice when they run around during a "stop," though, at times.

I'm not sure how this could be rectified too much. If they're invisible, then dozens will die each year from hornline collisions (and this happens enough already). The performers need to be able to see them too.

Just watch the high cam of Cadets '08 for an example of difficult judging... A section probably written to keep the judge away from the drumline.

I know,I know, the judges are necessary. It is still difficult to watch Phanton 2008 finals. as much as I tried to ignore the percussion judge, It was impossible. I and others that watched the DVD were amazed that this judge almost caused major collisions several times. one could not concentrate on the show, but rather it became a question of "please do not ruin this show" Unfortunately, the judge became the unwanted star of the performance.....This was not my first show, have been around for awhile...

[jplattSCV]

1. Mr. Cesario, you are World Class uniform designer. Is it possible to design a judge's uniform so they can BLEND IN to the background, instead of STANDING OUT?

Just have them change into the guard uniform of each corps. Make them jazz run everywhere they move.

[cowtown]

Surprisingly, the field judges don’t bother me. I think I’d be more bothered by the implied lack of accuracy in their scoring if they weren’t on the field. And if they were too well camouflaged, they’d be a hazard to the marchers

By the end of the season a judge can often give you a heads up on a moment by their running over to get a read on a hot bit

Having the judge halt when a corps halts might put the judge out of place when they start again, sometimes a halt allows a judge to escape out of a sticky situation and not be an impediment to a corps.

A part of me feels that the field judges bother people more on the DVD’s which could be minimized by editing – and to me, the DVD is always secondary to whats on the field, live

Staff hype can be annoying but it doesn’t have to be, for me it’s a personal space issue most often, they crowd my space. Their other offense (besides BO and unprofessional dress) is killing a moment by stepping on it, cheering in anticipation, so we agree there, if a staff has to teach the audience how to watch a show they failed in the design process

Usually in the stands I find other fans to be more bothersome than staff or judges but that’s just part of the expected experience of jamming thousands of bodies into a small space

[perc2100]

1. Mr. Cesario, you are World Class uniform designer. Is it possible to design a judge's uniform so they can BLEND IN to the background, instead of STANDING OUT?

Has others have pointed out, I can't fathom what is more blending on a football field than a green polo shirt.

2. Can judges be directed to move when the corps move, and stop moving when the corps stop? Nothing is more annoying than to see a corps "hit" a moving form into a dead standstill, both musically and visually, then watch a judge bring attention to himself by walking or running when EVERYTHING else on the field has stopped. It seems like common sense to me, but it has never been done by the judging community as a whole.

Common sense = a judge moving when the corps is NOT, so that way all can avoid collisions.

It seems like what you really want is judges off the field completely. The local circuit I teach/judge in has all judges in the box, and it definitely has its advantages & disadvantages. I personally like that the judges are on the field evaluating individual technique, able to make out any minute discrepancy that wouldn't be observable from the stands. If you like the concept of field judges, you have to accept that sometimes judges will be noticeable on the field. I've only been a drum corps fan since 1990, but I've gotten pretty good at not noticing the judges too often (and when I do, I almost immediately, instinctively, shift my focus towards something else).

3. I have been a corps fan since 1980, and I have always feared the day when "fans" would count in the scoring. The reason being is that in years past I have heard corps staffs FLOOD the stairways of shows up and down the 50 while their corps is performing, screaming and whooping, and trying to "drum up" audience reaction by "teaching" the audience when to cheer for their idea of "big moments." It ruins the whole show for me,because I get angry at people standing in the aisles instead of cheering for the performers on the field. I don't go to shows to get angry. Can you speak to how DCI might address stopping corps staffs as a whole, from doing this BEFORE they start ruining shows for us fans?

I totally get what your probable intent is: you don't want drum cops staff members to be obtrusive during performances, and I mostly agree. I'm not a big fan of ANY overzealous fans at any event.

HOWEVER...

I'm sure you understand that these instructors have spent a LOT of time with the students. Sometimes staff cheer to drum up applause, teach an audience when a 'moment' is, or even to cover up dirt (I've known staff members who cheer loudly when a judge in their caption is close to them to try to distract the judge). But sometimes it's positive reinforcement to hype their students. And sometimes it's actually genuine enthusiasm to see stuff they've worked on come together. As a teacher, there are times when I see a student perform and they nail something we'd been working on for awhile, or they have a great run and I'm genuinely excited to watch them perform.

If you want to mandate controlled response from staff, you need to mandate controlled response for all which is not cool (and not going to happen).

[perc2100]

I'd rather see on-field judges just go entirely.

Yeah, I have pretty mixed feelings about on-field judges myself. I like the amount of minutia they can 'read' as opposed to just box judges. I teach and judge in a local circuit with no field judges, and it becomes easy for some instructors to get the attitude of "well, it's clean enough; that dirt doesn't sound as bad from the box so lets move on." It's easier to get away with stuff without the discerning eyes and ears of a field judge, and I like that on the highest level of marching arts we have the most amount of scrutiny from judges: essentially to succeed you have to be really proficient.

That being said, the argument against judging, IMO, comes from safety of members on the field. While there have been some nasty accidents over the years involving judges, the ratio of performances w/accidents to performances w/out accidents is still pretty wide.

If the issue is distractions, there's no way around that without eliminating field judges. IMO that would water-down the judging a little bit. That being said, WGI has no problems with no judges on the floor, and a gym/arena is A LOT boomier than most stadiums: i.e. it's easier for sound and clarity to get lost in a gym than a football field. If that isn't perceived as an issue in WGI, then maybe it's not that big of a deal for DCI?

[3rd Glasgow BB]

Hang electronic targets from their necks and give the audience laser guns.

The winner get's a prize.

[perc2100]

Hang electronic targets from their necks and give the audience laser guns.

The winner get's a prize.

Ooooooh: combine drum corps with laser tag turkey shoot!

[actucker]

Yeah, I have pretty mixed feelings about on-field judges myself. I like the amount of minutia they can 'read' as opposed to just box judges. I teach and judge in a local circuit with no field judges, and it becomes easy for some instructors to get the attitude of "well, it's clean enough; that dirt doesn't sound as bad from the box so lets move on." It's easier to get away with stuff without the discerning eyes and ears of a field judge, and I like that on the highest level of marching arts we have the most amount of scrutiny from judges: essentially to succeed you have to be really proficient.

That being said, the argument against judging, IMO, comes from safety of members on the field. While there have been some nasty accidents over the years involving judges, the ratio of performances w/accidents to performances w/out accidents is still pretty wide.

If the issue is distractions, there's no way around that without eliminating field judges. IMO that would water-down the judging a little bit. That being said, WGI has no problems with no judges on the floor, and a gym/arena is A LOT boomier than most stadiums: i.e. it's easier for sound and clarity to get lost in a gym than a football field. If that isn't perceived as an issue in WGI, then maybe it's not that big of a deal for DCI?

The difference with WGI is that you are much closer to your audience. As counterintuitive as it is to say out loud, WGI is a much more intimate activity. That being said, at WGI events, the PA (or execution) judges are always sitting much closer than the visual or GE judges for the very same reason that DCI has judges on the field. There are some things you just can't read from up top. They can get away with being off of the floor and still getting read simply because there are fewer voices. Everything that PA judge hears from his seat is within his caption. A percussion judge doesn't have that luxury, nor does a brass field judge. If you're in the 15th row at a DCI show, and you're trying to read the battery behind an 80 brass impact, you're screwed. You need to be between the battery and the brass.

I'm sure that the field judges distract some people, but I can honestly say that while I've noticed them from time to time, at no point has it ever bothered me. I just say "oh, look, there's the field judge", and move on to the next thing. It has never, at any point, ruined a show for me.

[perc2100]

The difference with WGI is that you are much closer to your audience. As counterintuitive as it is to say out loud, WGI is a much more intimate activity. That being said, at WGI events, the PA (or execution) judges are always sitting much closer than the visual or GE judges for the very same reason that DCI has judges on the field. There are some things you just can't read from up top. They can get away with being off of the floor and still getting read simply because there are fewer voices. Everything that PA judge hears from his seat is within his caption. A percussion judge doesn't have that luxury, nor does a brass field judge. If you're in the 15th row at a DCI show, and you're trying to read the battery behind an 80 brass impact, you're screwed. You need to be between the battery and the brass.

All good points, and I pretty much agree with all of it. Not only is WGI more intimate, there is a much smaller sampling of performers/events than in DCI. Great point about trying to sample percussion clarity when the battery is behind the brass. If that were the case now with judging, I suspect we'd have arrangers write beefy parts with gray clarity, knowing it won't read as dirty from the stands. In WGI it's much more difficult to hide (you can to a small extent with tuning, but that's about it), whereas in DCI with no field judges I suspect that type of thing would be rampant.

I'm sure that the field judges distract some people, but I can honestly say that while I've noticed them from time to time, at no point has it ever bothered me. I just say "oh, look, there's the field judge", and move on to the next thing. It has never, at any point, ruined a show for me.

Same with me; I've never been bothered by judging, and sometimes it amuses me. Everyone once in awhile I'll think/say, "ooh; blew that lick right in front of the drum judge" or something.