Jeff Ream Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Works for BOA and the Hopkins-lead USBands. So it's not like he hasn't ran this model. And if you have kids that can afford $2500 - $ 3000 for a summer band program, you're figuring a good % of those parents have the $ and commitment to go to shows. If you keep attracting well-funded members, that IS your refresh. except BOA and USBands are dealing with schools, not independent groups, and don't pull in nearly the bodies drum corps does. Diehards dont go marching to MetLife Stadium to see USBands championships. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 like him or not and I will go on the record as someone who has close ties to him and his groups, I don't care for the man personally BUT with that said......anyone ever think that the man says things purposely and at strategic times. There's no doubt a narcissist and by adding to the threads or the subject only adds to the name in lights syndrome. Maybe ignoring, even the ticking time bomb of the subject , eventually the person goes away for a while..we've all seen it happen here with certain people...lol...sure they re emerge but at least they are gone for a while. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Half of a Red Violin was tried in 2009. It didn't work out very well. Both halves would have made better kindling.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 except BOA and USBands are dealing with schools, not independent groups, and don't pull in nearly the bodies drum corps does. Diehards dont go marching to MetLife Stadium to see USBands championships. not disagreeing BUT Ive asked this before....is the die hard changing......or is there even such a thing anymore and on its way to to something very different as far as alumni etc etc...remember members today arent in the activity as long as we were in the past and todays member soon to be alumni, will they ahve the same likes, dislikes as well as values.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 OK.... so it works for BOA then it will work for Drum Corps.... Sam Ting 'eh... We'll just ignore things like MBs conencted to schools so ready made places to practice, local and alumni support, etc. etc.... First, I should make myself clear. I am not advocating for George or his stance on woodwinds. Add woodwinds, and I'm out. I am just explaining some of the thoughts on the shift. People tend to think inside of the box on why it would (or should) never happen. I share this to shed a little light on the angles that are not being considered. So secondly ... yes. BOA and Drum Corps, the model, would be very much the same thing. Except "Drum Corps" would be held as the high standard. Where kids go to achieve even more. So you keep the teeny-bopper fans and the boosters paying for seats. Adding woodwinds, expanding the coffers, and accepting the loss of long-time fans. Die-hards = dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSU GRAD 82 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Is it possible that not enough people care about it anymore BECAUSE of the changes he's pushed? Drum corps relies on fan support and the largest segment of the fan base are either long time fans or corps alumni. IMO, DCI and the changes made by George Hopkins have been the largest single factor in the alienation/disenfranchisement of the diehard fanbase. Self-fulfilling prophecy, IYAM. You hit the mail on the head there! We still go to shows but the enetertainment factor up and down the board is just not there. It has improved somewhat the last few years, but still not in the same league overall as in the good ole days. (70's, 80's, 90's) Prime example, how many good old fashioned standing ovations do you see at shows today? They are few are far between. There's little to nothing worthy of standing up and cheering about. A few isolated moments here and there just isn't going to cut it and I'm certainly not alone in that sentiment! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) except BOA and USBands are dealing with schools, not independent groups, and don't pull in nearly the bodies drum corps does. Diehards dont go marching to MetLife Stadium to see USBands championships. Oh I know. I've been to BOA Nationals. It is a revolving door of parents, boosters and family friends, etc. Tightly restrict the amount of passes that the units can distribute, limiting freebie "Pit Dads" and the like. And if you charge non-qualifying band students to attend finals ... Like I just said above. Diehard, in this scenario, dead. Also - you still market to the teenage fanboy/fangirl. You know the types. They will still come. They have no ties to the roots of the activity. Edited June 19, 2012 by mingusmonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMadMan Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 not disagreeing BUT Ive asked this before....is the die hard changing......or is there even such a thing anymore and on its way to to something very different as far as alumni etc etc...remember members today arent in the activity as long as we were in the past and todays member soon to be alumni, will they ahve the same likes, dislikes as well as values.. I would say that before instrumentation changes, there were still a lot of older alums attending shows. At least, that's what I remember from my marching days in the mid-90's. Now I don't see a lot of older alums sporting corps jackets and all that at DCI shows. A couple of things: 1. George Hopkins states the decline of the arts and entertainment. As it relates to drum corps, I blame the touring model. Just from 15 or so years ago, the season has shrunk by at least 3 weeks, and there are also fewer shows. Bigger, yet fewer. Back in the DCM (DCW, DCE, etc), there were many more shows that were more affordable. Fewer corps per show, but they were cheaper. DCM alone could have 2-3 shows going on on one evening in different towns. Now premium seats at a show are pushing $50 for local shows. 10 corps lineups are fine and all, but $25 for a 5 corps lineups might be an easier draw as it was back before drum corps divisions went away. 2. Adding woodwinds wouldn't replace the entire hornline. We're talking MAYBE 30-40 kids, if that. So how is that little amount supposed to grow a declining fan base? Will those 30-40 kids' parents/family/friends be MORE likely to attend shows than the 30-40 already in place? I guess my question is, what does he hope to attract that he isn't already getting?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) One of the things that stuck out in the conversation was George's comment about excluding a third of the band when making recruiting visits. Later he says something to the effect that he'd like to see recruiting return to how it was in the 70's...when we excluded a third of the band. Woodwind players have marched in drum coris for decades as brass players, drummers and front ensemble performers. It's a matter of desire. Summer band has been tried, and failed, in the past. Why did BOA change to a fall format? Why did SBI (Summer Bands Int'l) fold on the West coast? Drum corps wasn't broken until people, including George Hopkins, started messing around with it. Any-key brass didn't "fix" it. Amplification didn't "fix" it. Electronics haven't "fixed" it. What will fix it is in your face brass and percussion, brilliant drill design and execution, and amazing guard work. Go ahead and cite 3 valves and grounded pit. They didn't change the fundamental timbre of the ensemble. Future fans are no guarantee if legacy fans aren't there to support until recent age-outs have the financial ability to fill that void, and less corps = less alumni. Let's support the Grow Drum Corps project and help establish and support new organizations. There's your future. EDIT: My lovely bride who marched 4 years as a guard member in Geneseo Knights and Phantom Regiment, in spite of being a trombone/baritone player in HS, told me when she marched in the Staunton, IL, HS band, marching season was all brass. Every woodwind player played a brass or percussion instrument, including a clarinet player who was their best snare drummer. Some marched in the guard. Many went on to be music education majors. Garry in Vegas Edited June 19, 2012 by CrunchyTenor 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCV84 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Is it possible that not enough people care about it anymore BECAUSE of the changes he's pushed? Drum corps relies on fan support and the largest segment of the fan base are either long time fans or corps alumni. IMO, DCI and the changes made by George Hopkins have been the largest single factor in the alienation/disenfranchisement of the diehard fanbase. Self-fulfilling prophecy, IYAM. This I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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