kaseyW Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Honestly, I'm shocked. I'm not a Bocook fan ...... but this is some tasty work for BK. The brass book and vis book is tough. Combined, that can make a rough brass score. I'm sure the kinks will get fixed by the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabadabadoo Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Scouts are just flat better than cavaliers this year. YOU need to get over it. Scouts know what to do to bring it up a notch, too. They are being slotted like they are every year. And, BTW, the order of performance at Minneapolis should have NOT been determined by placements last year...that is why the Cavaliers moved ahead of the Scouts...the ONLY reason. I wouldn't say that so proudly. Just keep in mind you're barely going neck and neck with the supposedly "worst cavalier corps" since 97. If anything, i'd say that going on after Crown would hurt more than help. also the alternative is possible. Maybe the judges prior to the MN show were slotting the Cavaliers based on the previous nights. Who knows. Also, if the Scouts could "bring it up a notch" they would've broken into the top 5 by now. Which has yet to happen. It takes more than pleasing the crowd to hang with the big boys. Ask anyone at Phantom or Crown. I kinda forgot how passionate you Scouts fans were. Which is great. But lets be honest. Did you really think Scouts could stay ahead of the Cavaliers (a corps known for being visually pristine) and maintain that gap? Don't forget the kids are still VERY talented. They were just given an awful show to work with. Some shows just sound better on paper.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMusician Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 [/b] I wouldn't say that so proudly. Just keep in mind you're barely going neck and neck with the supposedly "worst cavalier corps" since 97. If anything, i'd say that going on after Crown would hurt more than help. also the alternative is possible. Maybe the judges prior to the MN show were slotting the Cavaliers based on the previous nights. Who knows. Also, if the Scouts could "bring it up a notch" they would've broken into the top 5 by now. Which has yet to happen. It takes more than pleasing the crowd to hang with the big boys. Ask anyone at Phantom or Crown. I kinda forgot how passionate you Scouts fans were. Which is great. But lets be honest. Did you really think Scouts could stay ahead of the Cavaliers (a corps known for being visually pristine) and maintain that gap? Don't forget the kids are still VERY talented. They were just given an awful show to work with. Some shows just sound better on paper.. yes and my proof is next saturday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabadabadoo Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 yes and my proof is next saturday I'm not talking about next week. I'm talking about when it's all said and done. The Cavaliers WILL be ahead of them. I see no reason why they wouldn't be given the talented cavaliers staff/members and Scouts history of not being able to at least break 90 by finals. Like I said last post, it takes more to winning than just playing music that appeals to the crowd. If you can't get your show clean, don't expect any judges to be impressed enough to consistantly put you over an elite corps. (Yes I still consider them an elite corps. Just because they have a flawed show design and a new drill writer doesn't mean the members themselves aren't great) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 wvu80, on 15 July 2012 - 08:04 AM, said: Crown went on 4th from the end and finished 2nd. BD went on 2nd from last, finished 1st. And the Cadets, who went on LAST and should have benefited from your slotting theory, finished THIRD! Darn judges are so screwed up they can't even get slotting right... +++ Kasey W ...and Cavaliers got 8th [/quote Some of those Cavalier people are the best fans in the activity Kasey, and they're going through an extremely rough stretch right now. I was trying to be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musclebud Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 The Madison Scouts design team is being put in very difficult position. How do they please their fans(the most faithful in DCI) and the judges at the same time. A dear friend of mine aged out in their 1988 would championship show.... he cried, I cried and I have the pics to prove it. But I believe it is actually their very fan base that is putting the designers in the untenable position of pleasing the fans and creating a winning program at the same time. The 1988 or 1995 programs would probably not work with today's judging system and to me that is kind of a shame, but that is a completely different thread. So instead of asking the design staff to re-create those incredible memories, we should let the Scouts evolve for better or worse with the current system. I have the DVDs of those amazing past performances and no one will ever take those away. I am quite sure I have stepped on some toes with this, but it is just my opinion and as they say "Opinions are like ###holes.... everyone has one". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 But if you NEVER liked them, EVER, even the past, what, 25 years they've been winning DCI or placing in the top tier - the fact that you didn't like them even then would seem to indicate that your scale of what's "good" is a little whacked, eh? The show isn't clicking yet, but the breathless, over-the-top vitriol (look it up) coming from the parking lot has more than a little touch of Schadenfreude about it. Enjoy it while you can, folks, it probably won't last that long. (BTW, it's "Nessun Dorma" ) Very true! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 SUTA: "Stop Using The Amps". You're welcome. No. Scouts have not been the "most entertaining corps" for me since 1999, I'm sorry to say. I love Scouts, but this year's show is not the great and wonderful thing that Scouts fans are trying to make it out to be, as far as I'm concerned. The arranging is awful, imo. I want them to do well, but man, it's just so choppy and lacks emotion (yes, even with the rotating company front) The only moment in the show that I really love is when they finally bring the company front forward and start to play. Why can't the rest of the show be that straight forward? That's one of the biggest problems with this activity today, imo. Too many corps are tryiing to be "sophisticated" and be seen as "artful". It's a bunch of pretentious baloney if you ask me. Just march and play. And when you play, play the music as it's written, or at least don't chop it up SO MUCH. In my opinion, every corps should take a cue from Phantom Regiment in regards to arranging. I can't remember a recent year where I didn't enjoy their musical arrangements. To each his/her own though. We'll just see how everything turns out. Agreed. I'm really tired of all the chop and bop and the "just because" juxtaposed arrangements that most of the corps are trying. This is pretty true in most of the corps this year. It is NOT the exception. It's probably due to the sheets too... Also, all the lower body stuff is just over the top... Everyone's putting it in because it's on the sheets or it's interpreted as on the sheets. Look at EVERY corps. They're all guilty of doing it. It's not effective most of the time and it's overdone... Whose fault is it? Which corps started these two things... You can minus me, it's ok, but it's true! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin I. Zing Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) I think the Scouts management understand more than any other corps that they have an obligation to their members first to provide an "experience" that is best described as "the Madison Scout experience" and this has almost nothing to do with competing. It has to do with learning how to be a better man. Then second most important is they have an obligation to their fans to "entertain." Again, this has nothing to do with competing. It is like the line in Blazing Saddles . . . "We don't need no stinkin' badges!" Well, the Madison Scouts "Don't need no stinkin' judges!" They are not in it for the competition. They are in it first for the "experience" for their members and second for the "entertainment" for their fans. This in a nutshell is why they are the MOST POPULAR DRUM CORPS OF ALL TIME. They've got it right! Watch and learn. Edited July 15, 2012 by Martin I. Zing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) I'm not talking about next week. I'm talking about when it's all said and done. The Cavaliers WILL be ahead of them. I see no reason why they wouldn't be given the talented cavaliers staff/members and Scouts history of not being able to at least break 90 by finals. Like I said last post, it takes more to winning than just playing music that appeals to the crowd. If you can't get your show clean, don't expect any judges to be impressed enough to consistantly put you over an elite corps. (Yes I still consider them an elite corps. Just because they have a flawed show design and a new drill writer doesn't mean the members themselves aren't great) Everyone, Please know that tabadabadoo speaks for himself and no one else. I think most of the Cavalier fans on here have been pretty good and honorable so far this season and I hope we keep it that way. I like Madison and respect their rich history, which goes back many decades. They have been known as a perennial top 6 corps many times in the past and have done this pretty recently (2005), but they're currently rebuilding ( their brand and their performance level). Their current staff is also well respect and knows what it takes to do well... Let's not stress out on their placements this year, as they're obviously on the upside of performance and design... The Cavaliers are having some issues this year, but we do not know if this is by design, because of the design, or what. I would gather that they may be trying a different approach to layering this year, based upon what happened last year, where they had a lot of the product on the field and were passed up at the end. This year, I see that they're much more of a skeleton and are starting to put in layers that will make the program's design click for the judges... I saw many improvements last night, and I can see where more are going to be added. The show is improving, and the performance levels are getting better as well. What I see is a lot of passion and arm chair managing on here, and I'm not sure any of us are qualified to know what will happen in the end. Lets just keep it classy, as both the Scouts and The Cavaliers are classy organizations who have a pretty good relationship with one another off the field. Edited July 16, 2012 by jjeffeory 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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