corpsband Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 NO you are the selfish one! Why do you think that just because some people want Johnny comes marching home and endless company fronts and people playing air guitar that everyone is being represented when they are not? False dichotomy (-1 for you). There are not just two alternatives. I saw a wide variety of shows during the webcast (many of which had aspects which displease fans here on DCP). Try again please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 One of the "problems" with BD shows is that you need a practiced eye/ear to watch them. Without that, you miss the individual technique, the not-instantly-apparent difficulty, the movement, the guard, the horn book difficulty (also not immediately apparent), etc. It's why the masses (high school kids, general fans, etc) love many other shows like Crown, Madison, Crossmen. Especially when corps like Crown look/sound like they have really difficult shows (which they do- and isn't necessarily good). I was in the same boat years ago- the most entertaining must be the best! And I would be confused as to why that other corps won. Edit: re. the voiceover- It's not my favorite part, but I also have no difficulty not paying any attention to it. Just like Cadets '07, one of my favorite shows ever- no reason for the narration to be annoying if you don't notice it (and the rest of the show is great). Is that a good thing though? Think about it, besides most of us super nerds with Fan Network, or who sit on here all summer, how many shows do you think the average fan goes to? Maybe 1 or 2? I don't know if that's really the best for developing a "practiced eye" or taking the multiple viewings a show like this requires. When you have so many people who will only get one read on a show, and sometimes I think an easy concept would be easier in order to do that? With a show like Madison, Crown, Crossmen, like you mentioned, they all have pretty simple themes that would be easy for a first-timer as well as a multi-year fan to get. I'd throw Cadets into that mix too. While a show like BD seems to require some research into the art movement, as well as multiple viewings to really get what it is they're doing, and how well they are doing it. I'm not saying that DCI needs to dumb down its shows so everyone can get them the first time, but maybe something that doesn't require going and reading a libretto about could help us get more fans in the future? Cadets '07 was such a great show, even with the narration. Yeah, some of it was a little heavy-handed, but I think most of it went with the theme, and man they could play and march amazingly well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Correct. You left out the fact that audience engagement doesn't mean "audience appeal" or "entertainment value". I haven't seen one anti-BD poster try and make a successful argument that Devils aren't engaging the heck out of everyone. Especially DCP posters. Activity (or lack of activity) on DCP has nothing to do with engaging an audience at a show. Audience engagement goes to keeping their attention in a satisfying manner. An annoying hiss through a loudspeaker is not audience engagement (despite keeping their attention). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Be absolutely honest here, Oldsnare.....let's assume that BD came in 5th or 6th in SA....would you really still say all of this about them, selfish, etc?? My guess is no. Your concern is not that they present (what is to you) a high brow show with no crowd appeal. Your real concern is that they are winning with it. And did you ever consider that "if every corps did this",,maybe it would have less impact (not that I've seen many other corps designing "out there" where BD is). BTW, there are many old curmudgeons (cough, cough, Chatty T, Garfield, Ream), who have some nice things about this year's BD production....are they dashing to the souvie trailer, probably not...but they aren't music majors either! Lol Plan. You're projecting you're thoughts into the mind of the entire audience now. Pretty amazing how it's not permitted to generalize what an audience thinks when that supports your POV but it's perfectly ok for you to tell us WHY the audience is reacting as they did. Smack on the wrist for you too! Try again please. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Perhaps I am in the minority of people who don't hate the show but disagree about it's placement. Specifically it's effect, brass, ensemble visual and guard scores. Perhaps you're NOT in the minority. Perhaps the audience at SA agrees with you and THAT precipitated their reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Engaging adjective 1. winning; attractive; pleasing: an engaging smile. Engage verb (used with object) 1. to occupy the attention or efforts of (a person or persons): He engaged her in conversation. Thanks for this. The DCI sheets use the verb "engage" and not the adjective "engaging". Therefore, "pleasing" the audience is not important. However, "occupy(ing) the attention" of the audience is important. So if the audience is bored, they're not engaged. Is the audience bored? How are the judges meant to figure this out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Activity (or lack of activity) on DCP has nothing to do with engaging an audience at a show. Audience engagement goes to keeping their attention in a satisfying manner. An annoying hiss through a loudspeaker is not audience engagement (despite keeping their attention). Activity on DCP, discussion at shows, and in other venues are absolutely a RESULT of audience engagement. There are many different way to engage an audience. It's not all whiplash drill and company fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britbones Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 It takes someone of chucks stature to point out, they are who they are and they do it better than anyone else on a very regular basis. Sorry mate, but this comment smacks of elitism and snobbery. The notion that one should defer in their personal appreciation entertainment value of show because of what someone else up on the ladder of educational pedigree and experience thinks, frankly doesn't alter one bit my personal opinion. What someone else likes is in their personal domain. I don't go there. What I like is in my domain.They don't go there with me. One's pedigree in all this is not worth spit. Maybe its because I'm a just the old fashioned cranky, contrarian sterotypical American here on this, but one's pedigree never impressed me much at all when it comes to one's personal music likes and dislikes. Nobody has a lock on " the truth " when it comes to what is enjoyed in a Performing Arts performance. Thats how I see it anyway. This Chuck's " opinion " above on entertainment value is no more valuable than anyone elses on here. I respect his take and observations. But I do not... repeat, do not... defer to it. That said, under the current judging standards and criteria utilized I can perfectly understand why the Blue Devils placed first last nite. It was a deserving 1st place win for them, imo. But was it my most entertaining show of the nite. No. Not even close. Not sure how you arrived at elitism and snobbery but no matter. My take on it is BD isn't everybody's cup of tea ( gone all British there) but almost every year they bring an exceptional product and usually rank in the top 3 and they do it with class. Personal opinions aside they are dominant in most aspects of DC. It isn't just what they bring to the field its the management and planning they must go through to always be a challenger. If i had my day all over again, would I march Devils?..... No. I am Crossmen through and through always will be. Elitist and a snob i am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I completely agree with you there. If Cesario (an artist) had wanted entertainment and appeal on the sheets, they'd be there. I wouldn't be against adding them next year though. I said this in another thread, but it bears repeating: Blue Devils design and perform to the sheets better than any other corps. If "throwing babies" was made a valid criteria on the sheets, Devils would make you throw your baby with far more enthusiasm, to a greater distance, and with more accuracy than any other corps would. Actually if you listen to the interview Cesario did with Dan Potter earlier this year...(played at the beginning of the San Antonio webcast), he contends that BD has "hopped over a a couple generations" to specifically "get the crowd on their side" Dan Potter also addresses BD fan engagement that is not nessesarily throwing babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Actually if you listen to the interview Cesario did with Dan Potter earlier this year...(played at the beginning of the San Antonio webcast), he contends that BD has "hopped over a a couple generations" to specifically "get the crowd on their side" Dan Potter also addresses BD fan engagement that is not nessesarily throwing babies. Haven't listened to the podcast, but I may check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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