DCI's "Artistic Shift"

[skywhopper]

1) As for numbers management/point spreads - I've long wondered if nationals should be scored on an ordinal basis, i.e., the caption judges rank each corps without giving an actual score. The lowest average of ordinals across the judging panel determines the champion.

FWIW, Cavaliers proposed this in 2007 (more info in this article) and it failed by a vote of 19-0.

[StuStu]

FWIW, Cavaliers proposed this in 2007 (more info in this article) and it failed by a vote of 19-0.

I did not know that. Learn sumthin' new every day ...

[MikeN]

I would absolutely love to see an ordinal system, personally.

Mike

[charlie1223]

Are you saying that judges should only evaluate the quality of the product being presented and not the style? If so, then you are also saying that a really old-school block-slip, mirror-image, high mark-time drill should be able to win DCI in 2013.

Nooooo. I'm saying if innovation wins then Cesario shouldn't be encouraging corps to stick with their style. If your sticking with a style you aren't innovating. Unless your BD, Cadets and Cavies where innovation is part of the style.some styles aren't cut out for championships anymore. That's all I'm saying.

[Kevin Powell]

Nooooo. I'm saying if innovation wins then Cesario shouldn't be encouraging corps to stick with their style. If your sticking with a style you aren't innovating. Unless your BD, Cadets and Cavies where innovation is part of the style.some styles aren't cut out for championships anymore. That's all I'm saying.

from what people have told me...

evolution kills another dinosaur.

[Stu]

Nooooo. I'm saying if innovation wins then Cesario shouldn't be encouraging corps to stick with their style. If your sticking with a style you aren't innovating. Unless your BD, Cadets and Cavies where innovation is part of the style.some styles aren't cut out for championships anymore. That's all I'm saying.

Sort of playing devils advocate here, but.... some of the wildest explosions I heard from the fans this year were when the Crossmen formed the cross, the Scouts rotated a a huge company front, and Regiment formed a chevron; all old-school visual aspects that point to a specific tradition or style.

[Kevin Powell]

Sort of playing devils advocate here, but.... some of the wildest explosions I heard from the fans this year were when the Crossmen formed the cross, the Scouts rotated a a huge company front, and Regiment formed a chevron; all old-school visual aspects that point to a specific tradition or style.

when used properly like these examples YES... it creates both a moment of show excitement AND builds long lasting brand recognition. There should never be a reason to not put a signature on your work.

[supersop]

I'll chime in. When I marched, my brass caption head always reminded us that people "hear" with their eyes - if we didn't march well, it didn't matter how well we played. I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. Visual is the priority and always should be. I can always go to a concert and hear music played. I can't see music in motion anywhere else than DCI.

In fact, at solo recitals I oftentimes hear with my eyes. If a performer looks uncomfortable and awkward, then I feel that way throughout their performance, regardless of how well they play. If they mess up, I will be less forgiving as well. If the performer looks rock solid and confident, I feel relaxed, and will overlook a slip up or two. The same applies to drum corps. I felt uncomfortable watching Crown this year, despite their incredible musical ability. I enjoyed BD and Phantom much much more, because at every point in their show they looked confident and in control, not like they were about to fall down or collapse from exhaustion.

A show can and should be musically driven, as long as the visual is at the same or higher level than the music (see Phantom, BD, BAC, Crossmen this year). A 60-40 music-visual judging system could potentially hurt the future progression of show design.

I'm soooo against your first statement on so many levels. no offense, but this is the modern mentality of DCI. A musical production does NOT have to revolved around a visual concept, idea, motif, storyline or the visual aspects of confidence. Even in theater .... the dialect (screenplay) is what drives the production. The acting (or the visual) supports the story ... so does dance or choreography or props or anything else they add to the production. without the words ... there is no show.

In drum corps .. without the music .. there is no show. Frankly, it ticks me off that in the past .. corps have won multiple championships on a musical book that was a bag .. just because they were awe inspiring visually. That set the curve for the entire 2000 decade. The visual is and should always be in full support of the musical production. that's "old school" thinking ... but it's completely true. No matter how you slice it .. you have to have the audio book in order to create a visual book that enhances it to the next level.

I think the message of your staff is true to a certain extent .. but it's only secondary in it's importance. Sadly, the sheets say otherwise. THIS is the major problem in DCI adjudication ... scoring ... and placements.

as for Crown .. watch the Finals VOD. They disproved your statement. Finally .... it took them way to long to achieve this fete .. but they did achieve it on finals night.

Edited August 16, 2012 by supersop

[StuStu]

I'm soooo against your first statement on so many levels. no offense, but this is the modern mentality of DCI. A musical production does NOT have to revolved around a visual concept, idea, motif, storyline or the visual aspects of confidence. Even in theater .... the dialect (screenplay) is what drives the production. The acting (or the visual) supports the story ... so does dance or choreography or props or anything else they add to the production. without the words ... there is no show.

In drum corps .. without the music .. there is no show. Frankly, it ticks me off that in the past .. corps have won multiple championships on a musical book that was a bag .. just because they were awe inspiring visually. That set the curve for the entire 2000 decade. The visual is and should always be in full support of the musical production. that's "old school" thinking ... but it's completely true. No matter how you slice it .. you have to have the audio book in order to create a visual book that enhances it to the next level.

I'm reminded of the scene in "Amadeus" where the emperor's decree leads to dancers dancing without music. Great visual without music is - what exactly?

This touches on what I see as a fundamental shift in modern drum corps. There was a time when a show's "theme" primarily followed the music. Now, it seems the music follows the theme. While this has opened up new avenues of creativity, I think it also has led to drum corps taking itself a bit too seriously.

The challenge is how one can create "art" while still connecting to the audience. After all, drum corps is a performance medium.

[Stu]

The challenge is how one can create "art" while still connecting to the audience. After all, drum corps is a performance medium.

Then eliminate the challenge by eliminating the "art"; and here is my reasoning. The Dave Matthews Band, Rush, U2, Rolling Stones, Blue Man, are some of the highest caliber musical bands in the world; there is no denying that fact. I would venture to say that many here on DCP would pay, or have paid, big bucks to go see some of these groups and moreover would more than likely sell their you-know-what to perform with them. Yet theses bands are not concerned at all with "art", just great sounding commercial music along with high quality production which drives the crowd nuts. In turn they garner a plethora of fans all over the world every year who fill entire stadiums by paying out the kazoo for those tickets. "Art" on the other hand is fine, I am not knocking it at all; but if you desire "art" you have to accept the fact that it will only appeal to a very small clientele. I mean how many people will want to go to a stadium and pay to get in to hear and see something by Schwantner combined with wild drill moves no matter how great the performance. And by the way, one of the axioms of art is not having to "connect" with the audience but only making the audience "think"; and who in their right mind wants to pay for travel, food, motel, and hundreds of dollars in tickets to an entertainment venue like DCI and be forced to think!!! Point being is that if you want more butts in the stands, more paying audience, increased fan base, then provide high quality musical/motion commercial entertainment like Blue Man combined with Rush (it does not have to be American Idol combined with World Wrestling); but if you desire "art", then accept the fact that only a very small percentage of a paying crowd will ever be developed; ever.