San Francisco Renegades Schedule Update

[camel lips]

oh please. Look, I want the Renegades back as much as anyone, but being different isn't what caused the problems Keith.

Lets play devils advocate for a second.

DCA is looking for a younger branded corps. Looking at most of the other top DCA corps they seem to have gotten the message over the years and have conformed. Most of the Top 10 corps have lowered their age SIGNIFICANTLY. It does not take a rocket scientist or a math wiz to figure this out. Just pop in a video from say 2004 of XYZ corps and then compare it to XYZ corps from 2012. What you are going to see is A much younger and leaner all round corps.

Renegades have not conformed to that standard or appeared to be heading in that direction.

Now we come to some inappropriate behavior that most everyone agree upon that has happened before in DCA in the past by most every other corps out there and nothing was ever done about it. Nothing to the degree of a suspension from DCA. DCA decides to take the firm stance of a suspension.

Again playing the devils advocate card I suspect DCA is taking this opportunity to send a clear message to ALL the DCA corps. CLEAN UP YOUR house and conform or you will not be part of the ALL AGE DCA.

Edited April 9, 2013 by camel lips

[KeithHall]

That's what I was saying but in my own little way.

Lets play devils advocate for a second.

DCA is looking for a younger branded corps. Looking at most of the other top DCA corps they seem to have gotten the message over the years and have conformed. Most of the Top 10 corps have lowered their age SIGNIFICANTLY. It does not take a rocket scientist or a math wiz to figure this out. Just pop in a video from say 2004 of XYZ corps and then compare it to XYZ corps from 2012. What you are going to see is A much younger and leaner all round corps.

Renegades have not conformed to that standard or appeared to be heading in that direction.

Now we come to some inappropriate behavior that most everyone agree upon that has happened before in DCA in the past by most every other corps out there and nothing was ever done about it. Nothing to the degree of a suspension from DCA. DCA decides to take the firm stance of a suspension.

Again playing the devils advocate card I suspect DCA is taking this opportunity to send a clear message to ALL the DCA corps. CLEAN UP YOUR house and conform or you will not be part of the ALL AGE DCA.

[LegalEagle50]

Lets play devils advocate for a second.

DCA is looking for a younger branded corps. Looking at most of the other top DCA corps they seem to have gotten the message over the years and have conformed. Most of the Top 10 corps have lowered their age SIGNIFICANTLY. It does not take a rocket scientist or a math wiz to figure this out. Just pop in a video from say 2004 of XYZ corps and then compare it to XYZ corps from 2012. What you are going to see is A much younger and leaner all round corps.

Renegades have not conformed to that standard or appeared to be heading in that direction.

Now we come to some inappropriate behavior that most everyone agree upon that has happened before in DCA in the past by most every other corps out there and nothing was ever done about it. Nothing to the degree of a suspension from DCA. DCA decides to take the firm stance of a suspension.

Again playing the devils advocate card I suspect DCA is taking this opportunity to send a clear message to ALL the DCA corps. CLEAN UP YOUR house and conform or you will not be part of the ALL AGE DCA.

So let me get this straight. Bucs winning streak was actually a DCA plot to get corps to have younger members? Bucs would never have managed to figure out a winning show without DCA dictating what it is they needed to do, and that it was all a way to get all the corps to eventually decrease the age in the corps'? And probably then DCA was conspiring with DCI so younger people would go to DCA corps to get experience before DCI? Right? Was DCA also working with the economists of the world to crash the economy making it that adults were working more hours to provide for their families and not having the time they did to march? Or that it was financially more economical for parents to have their kids march a DCA corps than a DCI corps? And DCA has had a hand in what society finds acceptable, possibly even paying actors to act like hotel patron and get them to complain about corps' members behaviors at hotels, going back 30+ years in an effort to get corps' to clean up their acts?

And all this was actually a plot to drive the Renegades out of DCA???

That DCA management are a sneaky, tricky bunch. All this time I thought that they were just ordinary people trying to run an organization, but apparently they are right up there with CIA or KGB operatives, and some even working as double agents at times. Well played DCA, well played.....

[Valve Oil]

Mea Culpa, Loose cannons on DCP, and a handful of rowdy members not withstanding, I think DCA basically handed out a death sentence to the Renegades for the actions of a few. Had they made it clear that subsequent bad behavior under the DCA banner would NOT be tolerated, and not have been so rigid with the penalty of a one year suspension,(which is tantamount to a death penalty), perhaps the other 80 or 90 members wouldn't be deprived of the activity they (we all) love.

The activity on the whole is in it's death spiral......the fan base is evaporating... that's indisputable, so DCA, in essence, by eliminating a top ten corps, could have been a tad more proactive in its reaction and response to the agregeous events. If individuals broke the law they should have been arrested...if the behavior was deemed innapropriate public behavior within the law, IMO, DCA shot itself in the foot.

My opinion is only based on sketchy info gleened from DCP....I don't really know what took place, but the sad thing is that the activity has been damaged. I can only wish the Renegades well as they attempt to recover.

[MikeD]

Lets play devils advocate for a second.

DCA is looking for a younger branded corps. Looking at most of the other top DCA corps they seem to have gotten the message over the years and have conformed. Most of the Top 10 corps have lowered their age SIGNIFICANTLY. It does not take a rocket scientist or a math wiz to figure this out. Just pop in a video from say 2004 of XYZ corps and then compare it to XYZ corps from 2012. What you are going to see is A much younger and leaner all round corps.

IMO you have it backwards. DCA corps in the northeast were in a decline membership-wise. The older members were leaving (as always), and the "young older" members were not joining as they had in the past. Economy? Real life? Changing times? Fewer and fewer local junior corps that had age-outs that could join a DCA corps? Any, all, and probably many other reasons I'm not thinking of played a role.

So what are the DCA corps admins to do? Corps like the Bucs, Cabs and Hurcs have had strong staff-ties to the band world for decades, so...why NOT use those ties to attract new...and younger...members? Corps that were not able to go that route are...where?

It wasn't some sort of nefarious conspiracy by 'DCA' (which is the member corps, after all) to drive down the average age...it was survival.

Renegades have not conformed to that standard or appeared to be heading in that direction.

Average age had nothing to do with the problem...or at least average behavioral age. Look at the Kilties; DCA still welcomes them.

Now we come to some inappropriate behavior that most everyone agree upon that has happened before in DCA in the past by most every other corps out there and nothing was ever done about it. Nothing to the degree of a suspension from DCA. DCA decides to take the firm stance of a suspension.

Part of any reaction by DCA would have been predicated on how the hotel in question and the tourism board of the town reacted to the incident(s) and talked about it to DCA, I would think. Was pressure brought on DCA to do 'something' or risk losing the next year's show? I have no idea, but if so...

In general, though, who cares what happened in the past, as excusing today? That is irrelevant to the discussion of what is acceptable in 2012 and beyond.

Again playing the devils advocate card I suspect DCA is taking this opportunity to send a clear message to ALL the DCA corps. CLEAN UP YOUR house and conform or you will not be part of the ALL AGE DCA.

If so...that is a good thing. it is not the environment of the past, thankfully.

[Fran Haring]

Now we come to some inappropriate behavior that most everyone agree upon that has happened before in DCA in the past by most every other corps out there and nothing was ever done about it. Nothing to the degree of a suspension from DCA. DCA decides to take the firm stance of a suspension.

Like I said in my earlier post, IMO you can't play the "hey, all this stuff was done before by other corps in the past and not been punished" card and have any credibility, Ed.

It's no secret that various corps behaved inappropriately at various times in the past. Not just all-age corps, but DCI/junior corps, too.

But it's NOT the past anymore. And thank God for that.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Fran Haring

[VOReason]

That's what I was saying but in my own little way.

And you would STILL be wrong.

[Guard Diva]

That DCA management are a sneaky, tricky bunch. All this time I thought that they were just ordinary people trying to run an organization, but apparently they are right up there with CIA or KGB operatives, or George Hopkins, and some even working as double agents at times. Well played DCA, well played.....

Fixed it for ya.

[bill]

Average age had nothing to do with the problem...or at least average behavioral age. Look at the Kilties; DCA still welcomes them.

Actually the average age of The Kilties is quite lower than one may think. Yes, the corps has some "seasoned" members among the mix but if they (as with every member, no matter what age) are not at the performance level needed to put out a product with the goal driven towards excellence, well....another vital area within the organization is found for them if they wish.

The overall average age of The Kilties is approximately 28 years old; and in some cases parents march alongside their kids and/or students. That's a good thing.......

Edited April 9, 2013 by bill

[N.E. Brigand]

Now we come to some inappropriate behavior that most everyone agree upon that has happened before in DCA in the past by most every other corps out there and nothing was ever done about it. Nothing to the degree of a suspension from DCA. DCA decides to take the firm stance of a suspension.

Part of any reaction by DCA would have been predicated on how the hotel in question and the tourism board of the town reacted to the incident(s) and talked about it to DCA, I would think. Was pressure brought on DCA to do 'something' or risk losing the next year's show? I have no idea, but if so...

Yes, I'd guess that was probably a major factor in the decision.

(I really enjoyed the Renegades' show and hope for their return in 2014.)