Stanford Showdown

[wesleyrp]

On the bright side....

Crown

SCV

BK

Mandarins

all seem to be much improved and are being well received. I actually think PC is better but their show was written by the BD staff:)

[Plan9]

A couple of observations, and one thing I would really like to address among those things.

Crown is definitely cleaner than BD, but both corps are still very, very dirty. I really think Crown needs to fix a couple of key moments in their show design-wise (the drill at the end of the opener is too slow and not exciting, the closer is super lame compared to the rest of the show, and the ending needs some serious work)....but I think that if they could clean it up and fix the few problems, then the championship could really be theirs for the first time ever. Percussion is still not fantastic but much better than last year, and the guard will absolutely compete with BD for the title...I think brass has the title wrapped up already.

Something I want to address: Those of you who argue that what BD is doing this year is really avant-garde and such and that this is what Stravinsky would have wanted and that BD is somehow addressing Stravinsky's vision and blah blah blah and talking about the crowd rioting and such, PLEASE understand some key things about music history before you try to justify what BD is doing (for the record, I like the show, although not nearly as much as 2010 and 2012 which I thought were both brilliant):

STRAVINSKY WAS A TONAL COMPOSER FOR THE MAJORITY OF HIS LIFE. The first two-thirds of the compositions he wrote were very tonal in nature(INCLUDING Rite of Spring). Yes, his use of meter and harmony was unique, but that doesn't mean that Stravinsky was trying to upset the flow of things or change music or make it into something that it wasn't. I would encourage you to listen to Petrouchka, Firebird, Symphony of Psalms, and Rite of Spring in their original form, and then please come back and try to convince me of how what BD is doing this year is in any conceivable way what Stravinsky originally envisioned.

Again, love BD and their shows, but please understand that splicing very non-musical quad and snare solos over Stravinsky's work while mixing random power chords and jazz stabs in does not qualify as "artistic" or "revolutionary".

A point of clarification: It's easy (and in many ways more interesting for conversation here) to focus on the overt historic outcome of Rite and the notion that Stravinsky was somehow on a quest to shock the audience (and by extension BD's direction). The truth is..... IMO, the BD designers are approaching their show designs each year with the ever present desire to be fresh and unencumbered by the trappings of popularity (with all of its inconsistency). As you point out, there is much to love about these shows and among a field of other entertaining corps productions, BD's "avante gard" direction, though perhaps previously traveled ground....is no less entertaining.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Plan9

[bluesman]

We change everything in Drum Corps, but the judges. You are partially correct. Some of the current judges are retirees from the public school systems, and some have been for a few years now. Some of them were judging Drum Corps shows around the time some of these current MM's Grandfathers and Grandmothers were making wedding plans. Some of then were judging Drum Corps shows before Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, David Ortiz, Mo Rivera, Tom Brady, Tiger Woods, Kevin Garnett, etc or any current pro athlete on any professional sports team was even born.

Do we need lots of new young blood in the DCI judging ranks, with perhaps a fresher perspective on things ? Sure, I'd say this'd be a welcomed " change ", in my opinion.

It does throw me a bit off when I hear the name of a judge announced and recognize it from when they judged me as a member of the Memphis Blues........ which folded in 1983. There were none at this particular show tonight, but I do remember it from recent seasons. Is the honor of being selected to become a DCI judge tantamount to being placed on the U.S. Supreme Court?

Edited June 23, 2013 by bluesman

[Plan9]

On the bright side....

Crown

SCV

BK

Mandarins

all seem to be much improved and are being well received. I actually think PC is better but their show was written by the BD staff:)

What's the dark side Wes?

[ashevillemurphy]

It does throw me a bit off when I hear the name of a judge announced and recognize it from when they judged me as a member of the Memphis Blues........ which folded in 1983. There were none at this particular show tonight, but I do remember it from last year. Is the honor of being selected to become a DCI judge tantamount to being placed on the U.S. Supreme Court?

I remember some from judging my HS band at BOA events in the late 70's and early 80's ...

[soccerguy315]

Say what you want about the show designs... but I thought Crown outPERFORMED BD in just about every caption (except for drums) tonight by a pretty large margin. Very surprising to me that Blue Devils won. I actually really like the show, it just seems far, far dirtier than what Crown has on the field right now.

you cannot "outperform" someone else to get a higher score... doesn't seem to work that way in DCI anymore. The show design is just worth way too much, there is only very little say that the performers actually have in the score.

[corpsband]

BTW, the degree of vocal, guttural response last night is again (based on the multiple angles in the stadium reported last night) telling of nothing other than some fans (wanting a different outcome) have little grace and knowledge of public behavior during the performing arts......

You've been pretty consistent in the past in tying the booing to "East Cost/Mid West" ABBD fans. You (and others) have also consistently pointed out that it *never* happens on the West Coast.

So...was the Stanford crowd flown in from Indy and Allentown?

Or are the WC fans suddenly ABBD?

Just curious.

I'll just throw this out there:

Maybe fans are slightly more knowledgeable than you give them credit for. Maybe they're perceiving -- not subtle differences (because those differences would not motivate people to react strongly) -- but larger, significant differences in excellence and think the panel just plain got it wrong. Crowds can see when things (and performers) hit the ground, things don't go around together, performers struggling to make their dots, forms which hit late or not at all, props which don't move together at all. Granted there's more to the sheets than those things -- but those things ARE on the sheets. And they're pretty fundamental. You don't get credit for sophisticated design if you can't execute it do you?

Both corps are very dirty -- but was there an unmistakable difference in degree?

I'm with you, Plan -- booing is graceless. But your past explanations fall a little short in the face of last night.

[BRASSO]

the crowd appeal will come. Even if someone doesn't like a certain show, I suspect they'll learn to begrudgingly give the shows (and more importantly, the corps) big props for trying something different and fully committing to the productions. This is shaping up as a great year for DCI drum corps.

Hmnn.. I don't know about this. No, regretably, I don't believe" the national crowd appeal will come " for the 2013 BD production this summer. I guess we can revisit this in August, to see if the national " crowd appeal " for this show comes or not. I hope it does, but I really doubt it. That said, I am quite confident that the current DCI judging community will love this show ( and in a few fan quarters as well ), and that it will be in the top 3 with the judges for certain come Finals, possibly winning it all.

Its one thing to " give props " to a Corps for attempting something different ( I do re. BD ), but quite another to like that " different ". ( I don't, but thats ok ). I do agree with you that the effort is there, the talent is there, the commitment is there, and so from that perspective it may be that all that BD needs to consider themselves a success this season, particularly if it results in another DCI Title that certainly looks within their grasp. Finally, I do agree with you that this is shaping up as an intriguing season, as there are lots of hard working talent on display and lots of good shows and tight competition ! :thumbup:/>

Edited June 23, 2013 by BRASSO

[Plan9]

Point taken, but MY only point was no matter who decides to boo, I'm sure BD will go out and perform at an extremely high level regardless.

Correct....with this caveat: BD indeed cares, but part of their processing negative reaction has unintended consequences opposite of what the booer would wish. It's really true.

[NeoCervantes II]

As many years as "BD has been booed", I doubt they really care.

Now you are ascribing them the role of Milton Babbit in the Downfall of Classical Music. You are only making Jeff's case for him.

"Who Cares if You Listen?" epitomized the carelessness that mid-twentieth century composers had for the audience and rather aggressively pushed them away... Look where we are now with less then 2% of all music purchased being classical (down from 3% five years ago as the generation that grew up with it is dying off).