perc2100 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Feel free to do so. Anyway I didn't criticize anyone -- it was just an accurate observation. IMO panel make-up has very much been a factor this season. I think every corps, staff and fan wants a 'favorable' panel for every show. Of course that doesn't happen but it doesn't stop any of them wishing for it. I think panel make-up is a factor every season. This season things are so tight though, a specific panel make-up really could call a placement (or a Champion). I agree that when every single .1 matter in every sub-caption, a favorable judge helps. But if Blue Devils have 'set a trend' of winning regardless of performance order or placement (spread change matters, but if it's .1 or 1 it's still a win), at what point do we stop blaming judge bias and just say: OK, they're better? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCHEZman Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) I think panel make-up is a factor every season. This season things are so tight though, a specific panel make-up really could call a placement (or a Champion). I agree that when every single .1 matter in every sub-caption, a favorable judge helps. But if Blue Devils have 'set a trend' of winning regardless of performance order or placement (spread change matters, but if it's .1 or 1 it's still a win), at what point do we stop blaming judge bias and just say: OK, they're better? The top 3 are tight so yes panels become more important. My problem is there are so many homer judges for BD and not for Cadets or Crown. I think Cadets got robbed in percussion and I think a crown got robbed in guard. Edited July 30, 2013 by newjerseycorpguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm in full agreement there. Corps that have even 1 championship (let alone 2, or 5 or 7) should be in the Tour of CHAMPIONS! Corps that have no championships should not be. Simple as that. :cool:/> I would be fine with a Tour of Champions of: * Blue Devils * Carolina Crown (won Div. 2 Championship) * Cadets * Phantom Regiment * SCV * Madison Scouts * Cavaliers That would make for a pretty great series of shows, IMO. I personally could care less about semantics when it comes to the name of a show, or a series of shows (I'm quite certain there are no actual emeralds being distributed or displayed tonight in Dublin, and I'm sure the field in Charleston does not actually span the length of three-states). But I really enjoyed the 'Tour of Champions' in 2004 even though Madison Scouts were significantly below the rest of the corps from an execution stand-point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) Debbie Torchia and Marie Czapinski are (IMO) the two most unpredictable Visual judges out there. Might as well throw darts at a poster trying to guess how they'll score corps. That's funny, because I'd disagree strongly on both counts. If Cavaliers are in the mix, Marie's a fan. If BD is in the contest and Torchia is on the panel, everyone else might as well not show up. She'll have them numero uno, regardless. Proof? Let's look at how many 2nd positions she's given to BD this season, whether she's judging GE, VA, VP, or Guard, shall we? Zero. None. Nada. Never. No one this season has ever had a better show design, done better on GE, or had a better Guard than BD, even though the other visual judges have been willing to allow that Crown has waxed Concord a few times in those same categories. Any legitimate sport would notice that level of consistency in the face of other judges' opinions and call the suspect judge into question. Then again, this IS DCI we're talking about. Edited July 30, 2013 by Slingerland 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frachel Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 DCI has more annual movement among competitors than any other sport too ( thats the big elephant in the room that many don't want to acknowledge, imo ) Thousands of marchers change Corps. Corps change shows completely from year to year two. But placements generally remain about the same on the whole if we're honest with ourselves about it. I agree, but is the 13th place corps really a "competitor" anyone in the top 4? Shows have to be written for the level of the performers, so I hold no ill will towards someone in a lower placing corps that has the talent to "move up" the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Catching up on the videos from last night and I'm quickly becoming a believer that SCV is going to make these last two weeks crazy interesting. Looking at the recaps also show this with visual and brass performance captions catching up. Percussion and guard have been there all season with the top groups. Tighten up the performance and add a couple more effects and we have legit four way race!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 But if Blue Devils have 'set a trend' of winning regardless of performance order or placement (spread change matters, but if it's .1 or 1 it's still a win), at what point do we stop blaming judge bias and just say: OK, they're better? Not sure you're replying to the right person. I didn't "blame judge bias" for anything. I was simply honking plain and simple :-) In my completely biased opinion Crown should absolutely win this year !! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumcorpsmademeaTuba Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) I would be fine with a Tour of Champions of: * Blue Devils * Carolina Crown (won Div. 2 Championship) * Cadets * Phantom Regiment * SCV * Madison Scouts * Cavaliers That would make for a pretty great series of shows, IMO. I personally could care less about semantics when it comes to the name of a show, or a series of shows (I'm quite certain there are no actual emeralds being distributed or displayed tonight in Dublin, and I'm sure the field in Charleston does not actually span the length of three-states). But I really enjoyed the 'Tour of Champions' in 2004 even though Madison Scouts were significantly below the rest of the corps from an execution stand-point. I honestly wouldn't want to stop there. If we're going with the shtick that everybody was a past champion of DCI, regardless of division, then I'd want basically every still active corps that has won a World or Open Class, Division I, II, or III championship to be there. It would be a saturated show, but I'm not one to complain about an extensive, and more importantly, extremely diverse line-up. /> Edited July 30, 2013 by DrumcorpsmademeaTuba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellodramatic Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 That's funny, because I'd disagree strongly on both counts. If Cavaliers are in the mix, Marie's a fan. If BD is in the contest and Torchia is on the panel, everyone else might as well not show up. She'll have them numero uno, regardless. Proof? Let's look at how many 2nd positions she's given to BD this season, whether she's judging GE, VA, VP, or Guard, shall we? Zero. None. Nada. Never. No one this season has ever had a better show design, done better on GE, or had a better Guard than BD, even though the other visual judges have been willing to allow that Crown has waxed Concord a few times in those same categories. Any legitimate sport would notice that level of consistency in the face of other judges' opinions and call the suspect judge into question. Then again, this IS DCI we're talking about. Get torched son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBLUE Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I would be fine with a Tour of Champions of: * Blue Devils * Carolina Crown (won Div. 2 Championship) * Cadets * Phantom Regiment * SCV * Madison Scouts * Cavaliers That would make for a pretty great series of shows, IMO. I personally could care less about semantics when it comes to the name of a show, or a series of shows (I'm quite certain there are no actual emeralds being distributed or displayed tonight in Dublin, and I'm sure the field in Charleston does not actually span the length of three-states). But I really enjoyed the 'Tour of Champions' in 2004 even though Madison Scouts were significantly below the rest of the corps from an execution stand-point. Personally I believe the tour should consist of the 6 current corps that have won division one world class titles. I say this meaning no disrespect to crown or bloo. Plain and simple, you win a title you get a spot. No strange exclusions, no exceptions to the rule. You win your in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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