Slingerland Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 ... do you understand what it takes to be a dci calibre judge? Its not simply filling out a questionnaire and putting on a tacky green golf shirt. The percussion and brass judges are all, generally, very well qualified to judge their categories, working as professional musicians and/or educators in non-drum corps formats themselves. As far as I know, there are no visual or guard judges who make livings as choreographers, dance critics, or visual artists. So THEIR qualifications seem to consist of "being really into guard/visual." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) No offense, and I was only in a DCA corps that mostly placed anywhere from 1-10 in my years, but if people came to the lot to watch us, we didn't send them inside, we made sure they got a show. Having watched many DCI lines in the lot back in the early 90's, the same was true then. the difference is back then, the lot wasn't made out to be as cool as it is now. with the advent of lot videos etc, the lot has grown in terms of how it's viewed, and grown in how much it's viewed. Yeah, some groups promote it, even DCi did with their lot vids....but to say people told fans to go inside BITD is IMO, nothing I ever encountered. I mean I have lot tapes going back to 92 people were making and trading. No offense taken; but I was in DCI; involved with two corps which are now part of the G7; and it was back in the years BJR (Before Jeff Ream ) in '80s and early '90s. Anyway, the experience with both corps was rather the same. Rehearsal days on tour were pretty much how they are now with people mingling around the housing site watching us rehearse from respectable distances, and then we would talk with them while on meal breaks. When we would travel to, and arrive at, a show site, we would seek out isolated places to warm-up that were not that accessible to the ticket buying public. And when someone did find us we ignored them if they stayed their distance and politely asked them to please respect our space if they got too close. Why? Because we were not only warming-up but mentally getting into that game-face mind-set. After the retreat was a different matter; after we had loaded the equipment and for the time period between the end of the show and our leaving we welcomed anyone to hang out around the bus lot to meet-greet family, friends, and even engage with potential wanna-bees. Edited February 20, 2014 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The proposal isnt going to pass (hint hint, Im rather close to that circle and its not being taken seriously (as it shouldnt), as there are so many obvious flaws with it... it would be just a "show" proposal and have no real merit nor value). and the fan base is quite well aware that they are NOT talented, creative designers... they are there to be wowed and impressed... in some circumstances to be inspired and learn... the audience are not peers,but rather spectators... do you understand what it takes to be a dci calibre judge? Its not simply filling out a questionnaire and putting on a tacky green golf shirt. I can handle changes like synths, guitars, sousaphones, I may not like them, but I can handle them. However, if you are as close to the inner circle as you claim, and if they are anywhere as arrogant, demeaning, pompous, fill in a plethora of other synonyms, as you come across then that is where I will draw the line and say that I am done with DCI. You apparently know nothing about the majority of people outside of that circle who are up in the stands at these shows; yet you show so much contempt for them it is nauseating. To me ‘that’ is the main problem; not only with DCI but with the snobby elitist mind-set which has infiltrated many of our academic institutions and teach students that they should be narcissistic because they are more learned than the rest of the world which is nothing more than Neanderthals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott St Sinclaire Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 As far as I know, there are no visual or guard judges who make livings as choreographers, dance critics, or visual artists. So THEIR qualifications seem to consist of "being really into guard/visual." WRONG here's a link to DCI.org 2013 World Championship judging panel: http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=d215b0df-3d2a-4311-b471-858adce1bd42 every single visual and guard judge DOES MAKE A LIVING IN THESE FIELDS AS EDUCATORS, DESIGNERS AND CONSULTANTS. Not to be argumentative, but your notion that they are just "fanatics" is quite absurd and demeaning to the professions of these highly trained and successful individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 This conversation (and many others that I've read and taken part in on this board) reminds me of this article. http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/ There is such a thing as an expert, and no the general public doesn't know as much as said expert. They're not arrogant or elitist for knowing more about their field. Its what they are supposed to know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott St Sinclaire Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 This conversation (and many others that I've read and taken part in on this board) reminds me of this article. http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/ There is such a thing as an expert, and no the general public doesn't know as much as said expert. They're not arrogant or elitist for knowing more about their field. Its what they are supposed to know about. agreed! Although I grew up playing baseball, soccer, football and basketball... Im by no means an expert in any ... when I attend a game, I enjoy what the pro's have prepared for me to spectate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) WRONG here's a link to DCI.org 2013 World Championship judging panel: http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=d215b0df-3d2a-4311-b471-858adce1bd42 every single visual and guard judge DOES MAKE A LIVING IN THESE FIELDS AS EDUCATORS, DESIGNERS AND CONSULTANTS. Not to be argumentative, but your notion that they are just "fanatics" is quite absurd and demeaning to the professions of these highly trained and successful individuals. No.." every single visual and guard judge does NOT currently" make a living in these fields as Educators, Designers and Consultants" in these fields. You are simply uninformed ( or misinformed) on this. This does not mean however that they don't have lots and lots of experience in Drum Corps and/ or WGI. But quite a few of the judges primary professional occupations are in fields totally unrelated to the Visual, Music Ed, and the Performimg Arts fields. One of the Guard judges ( for just one example ) that did Finals Week judging in World Class Div. this past August is a retired former middle school math teacher as his primary occupation. He 's never marched Guard himself personally in either Drum Corps or WGI.. His undergraduate college degree is in Math (with an MBA in Business). He USED to " consult in Guard and Visual", but he is in his early 70's now and retired from all of that. So you really are wrong on this. Additionally, nobody really knows the experience, training, expertise on a any of the DCI judges to judge ( for just one more example ) the electric rock guitar performance playing in DCI field competition. Do you ? If so, shed some light on this for us, as to our knowledge one's undergraduate degree even in Music Ed typically by itself does not provide the degreed individual with the breadth and knowledge of the rock guitar fingering and all the other intricate nuances of the playing of this musical instrument. Nor to my knowledge do any of the current DCI judges play an electric rock guitar in a rock band, or have done so in the past. If I'm mistaken on this perhaps you could enlighten me with what you know in this respect. Now, having said all this, this does not mean that these people judging are not good, decent and honorable people that try to do the right thing and have lots of experience in judging these shows. ( some have been judging Finals Week since they were in their late 20's, and now are still doing so into their 60's and 70's, despite being retired from their primary non musical career occupations for awhile now. ) Edited February 20, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I don't see any professional choreographers, directors, dancers or visual artists - in see people who work in the incestuous little world of WGI and related "pageantry" companies. So the people who are judging are overwhelmingly people whose expertise was developed by and with the exact same people whose work they're supposed to judging. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Not to be argumentative Yet with almost every single post you've made you argue and demean. For someone so "close to the decision making," maybe a little decorum (or even <gasp> friendliness?) might be called for? Mike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yet with almost every single post you've made you argue and demean. For someone so "close to the decision making," maybe a little decorum (or even <gasp> friendliness?) might be called for? Mike Just read the post that started this and wondering how long before suspension or banned comes into effect..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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