Significance of the new MiM ( aka DCI G7 corps) Fall shows?

[Henson]

BOA runs all their own shows, and rolls into town with considerable staff presence. This is one of the reasons their shows are so uniformly run.

USBANDS, with the possible exception of the top-level shows, doesn't do that. Their organization is much closer to the TEP system, but without as much hassle (e.g. setting up housing, etc.) The USBANDS approach is like a franchise agreement - "Give us some money, find a venue, hire some judges, and we'll give you sheets, tab software, and let you use our brand to promote your show."

Looks to me like MiM is going to be a new promoter of USBANDS shows as a fundraiser. Ok. No biggie. I don't really see what's extraordinarily different about this. The cool thing is that, presumably, corps staffers will have some sort of handle on how to run on-site logisitcs, more so than the "Podiddlyville County Band Boosters." They can also probably account for the cost of hiring the judges a bit differently, which has benefits for cash flow. Finally, what I would explore if I were them, is BOA's idea they've used in the last several years of providing clinics to interested band staffs after some shows.

You all are seeing conflict where one doesn't really exist. I don't imagine, given their mission and personalities, the leaders of Music For All being upset because there's an expansion of performance opportunities for high school musicians. They're probably thrilled, and hope it goes well.

Music For All really doesn't seem to much care about other circuits. They run their events. If you want to show up, they're thrilled to have you.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Henson

[perc2100]

whats so surprising about music with a few more points? Its a HS.. a music education program......why wouldnt DCI be different, Just like BITD when music carried more weight...the better corps knew the importance of the guard and visuals and it became inherent in every caption.. so even with less points it carried a huge amount of weight. Good band directors know this and dropped the guard isnt as important mentality decades ago...at least the successful ones get it.

Its great you want to evaluate some of these things in the future...I think you will be quite surprised, I know I was when I finally broke down and said yes to teaching some pretty darn good HS bands....

Right, and to be more simplistic, HS's have a pretty wide range of spending budgets, depending on boosters. A band with a smaller budget is going to have a hard time competing in a circuit that is GE-heavy. Having musical focused sheets kind of helps level the play the field a little bit.

[perc2100]

Basically a way to make this work for them and only them. puting themselves head to head with BOA, gathering the best bands where they get blasted with marketing materials these corps alone.

Now...I don't think this particular idea is all that bad or nefarious, but given the recent history in the board room, anything they do will be viewed with suspicion. and since few band circuits or drum corps have an office staff like say YEA does, that of course gives them a huge advantage

Again, this is not some sort of revolutionary, exclusive idea: literally any organization/person in the world with contacts can host their own independent show, with whatever sheets and judges they want. DCI sets up a booth at BOA, and I'm sure any corps can set up a booth at ANY show if they really want to and blast marketing materials all they want.

[perc2100]

I guess you do not work for BOA, then.

While there is no formal partnership or joint venture between DCI and BOA, I like to think there has been a spirit of cooperation between them. It is hard to imagine how that will continue to be the case if seven of the DCI corps band together to compete directly with BOA. So far, that is what this venture sounds like. What is your opinion on that aspect?

Do you work for BOA? Because if not, whatever you "think" is moot at best. USBands was founded in the fall of 1988 (as USSBA), and I think one could argue DCI & BOA's relationship has blossomed/greatened over that period of time. A DCI Director/at times DCI Executive Board member, operates USBand, and has for quite awhile, without DCI & BOA relations souring. There is plenty of room in the country for our performance opportunities, and besides: BOA bands will continue to compete in BOA, while non-BOA bands will likely to continue not participating in BOA, regardless of what other shows or pseudo-circuits pop-up over the years.

Edited March 11, 2014 by perc2100

[MikeD]

BOA runs all their own shows, and rolls into town with considerable staff presence. This is one of the reasons their shows are so uniformly run.

USBANDS, with the possible exception of the top-level shows, doesn't do that. Their organization is much closer to the TEP system, but without as much hassle (e.g. setting up housing, etc.) The USBANDS approach is like a franchise agreement - "Give us some money, find a venue, hire some judges, and we'll give you sheets, tab software, and let you use our brand to promote your show."

Looks to me like MiM is going to be a new promoter of USBANDS shows as a fundraiser. Ok. No biggie. I don't really see what's extraordinarily different about this. The cool thing is that, presumably, corps staffers will have some sort of handle on how to run on-site logisitcs, more so than the "Podiddlyville County Band Boosters." They can also probably account for the cost of hiring the judges a bit differently, which has benefits for cash flow. Finally, what I would explore if I were them, is BOA's idea they've used in the last several years of providing clinics to interested band staffs after some shows.

You all are seeing conflict where one doesn't really exist. I don't imagine, given their mission and personalities, the leaders of Music For All being upset because there's an expansion of performance opportunities for high school musicians. They're probably thrilled, and hope it goes well.

Music For All really doesn't seem to much care about other circuits. They run their events. If you want to show up, they're thrilled to have you.

I agree with your basic premise, but in all USBands shows, local or circuit-run, USBands assigns the judges to the show. The host does not hire just any judges they want. It just appears that way sometimes.

[corpsband]

I think the Top 7 corps of DCI, throughout most eras of DCI, have pretty much always cherry-picked the best of the best. It's the cyclical nature of a corps becomes at the top of the activity; top players want to march in the top corps; elite corps becomes consistently elite; top players consistently are attracted to marching w/elite corps. This marching band series of shows won't change that at all.

To me this seems at worst like another fundraising opportunity for the MiM organization: not a bad thing at all. At best it's an opportunity for bands to potentially do a one-off competition where they can get comments/input from some of the best designers and instructors (and judges) in the activity. This isn't necessarily competing with BOA (a circuit with regionals and a Championship) or any other circuit; unless I missed something this is a series of shows that will regionally line-up with home base of MiM corps, and I would guess that since most high school bands compete in a specific circuit, most schools who attend a MiM show will only attend one. The MiM groups will make money off of shows, HS students & staffers will get input from great judges, and MiM corps will get some more exposure at these shows. This is really not that big of a deal

A point not emphasized enough IMO. Far too many "judges" are far removed from actually standing in front of students and teaching. IMO getting a tape from the top designers and instructors in the activity would be far more educational/valuable than commentary from some of the "top" judges.

Just sayin'

[seen-it-all]

BOA runs all their own shows, and rolls into town with considerable staff presence. This is one of the reasons their shows are so uniformly run.

USBANDS, with the possible exception of the top-level shows, doesn't do that. Their organization is much closer to the TEP system, but without as much hassle (e.g. setting up housing, etc.) The USBANDS approach is like a franchise agreement - "Give us some money, find a venue, hire some judges, and we'll give you sheets, tab software, and let you use our brand to promote your show."

Agreed, except (as MikeD pointed out), USBands provides the judges. If you want consistency in just about all things, go to BOA. The shows run on time, you'll get a very good to excellent panel of qualified judges, and a solid evaluation of your program. Yes, the warm-up situation can be a bit overly-regimented and restrictive at times, but at least you know what you're going to get and things are consistent.

At USBands, you can get a very good read at a championship event (though I have yet to attend a single USBands show in ten plus years that actually ran on time), but any other event is a roll of the dice. You might get four judges, you might get six. You might get experienced qualified judges, you might get, shall we say, much lesser than that. And if I recall, George more or less sets the range on what the scores should be each weekend. It's nice that they seem to be branching off into the far reaches of the country to hold shows, but the fact remains that USBands will never be anything other than a regional circuit, in spite of the grandiose wishes of their leader. They just don't have the far-reaching resources to execute the vision with any kind of consistent quality. There are simply too many shows on a given weekend, not enough volunteers, not enough office personnel to go around (they burn through office personnel like firewood at YEA), and most importantly, not enough qualified judges to cover the entire slate of shows on a given weekend outside of a championship event. And many bands are jumping ship to other circuits in the region because the hassle is just not worth the cost. After all these years, the state with the highest participation (by a wide margin) in USBands is still New Jersey, and honestly, that's not saying much. There are some good bands there, but few truly great ones.

[MikeD]

Agreed, except (as MikeD pointed out), USBands provides the judges. If you want consistency in just about all things, go to BOA. The shows run on time, you'll get a very good to excellent panel of qualified judges, and a solid evaluation of your program. Yes, the warm-up situation can be a bit overly-regimented and restrictive at times, but at least you know what you're going to get and things are consistent.

At USBands, you can get a very good read at a championship event (though I have yet to attend a single USBands show in ten plus years that actually ran on time), but any other event is a roll of the dice. You might get four judges, you might get six. You might get experienced qualified judges, you might get, shall we say, much lesser than that. And if I recall, George more or less sets the range on what the scores should be each weekend. It's nice that they seem to be branching off into the far reaches of the country to hold shows, but the fact remains that USBands will never be anything other than a regional circuit, in spite of the grandiose wishes of their leader. They just don't have the far-reaching resources to execute the vision with any kind of consistent quality. There are simply too many shows on a given weekend, not enough volunteers, not enough office personnel to go around (they burn through office personnel like firewood at YEA), and most importantly, not enough qualified judges to cover the entire slate of shows on a given weekend outside of a championship event. And many bands are jumping ship to other circuits in the region because the hassle is just not worth the cost. After all these years, the state with the highest participation (by a wide margin) in USBands is still New Jersey, and honestly, that's not saying much. There are some good bands there, but few truly great ones.

True...all of it. USBands has so many shows at the local level that getting enough qualified judges, not just "national" names, is tough. The weekly score range setting is at least an attempt to codify the type of scores being assigned, so a judge coming in from Florida to NJ will be using the same range as judges from NJ or PA or...I understand why they do that, though I do recall one judge from Florida at a show who had no idea he was supposed to be using a scale...this was 5+ years ago.

I personally would not want to see a national local-show circuit. I like that each region sets up what they want in the way of judging their own units. Even USBands has, or had, different rules and scores based on geography.

[BRASSO]

A point not emphasized enough IMO. Far too many "judges" are far removed from actually standing in front of students and teaching.

True. Some of the current DCI judges might be needing a cane to stand up pretty soon. Not that theres anything neccessarily wrong with that when you're a long time school system retiree these days.

[BigW]

I found it interesting when i read the comments about BoA and the West Coast.

BITD when I was in HS- MBA (What BoA was originally called) had the Live Oak "Emerald Regime" out of Morgan Hill, CA as it's 800 pound gorilla. IIRC, Pete Emmons was their visual person or at least did the drill design. As previously pointed out at least some of the WC bands able to afford a BoA type of experience are coming out and doing well.