Significance of the new MiM ( aka DCI G7 corps) Fall shows?

[garfield]

Not sure if you are aware, but a number of corps have already been running band events. I know Crown, Cadets, PR, Blue Knights, Troopers and Spokane Thunder have.

However, I question what you mean by "natural progression". In the above examples, where corps have run events in their own areas, often areas that were underserved, that is natural. You could even contend that the expansion of USBands into other underserved areas of the country is natural. But this?

I guess you do not work for BOA, then.

While there is no formal partnership or joint venture between DCI and BOA, I like to think there has been a spirit of cooperation between them. It is hard to imagine how that will continue to be the case if seven of the DCI corps band together to compete directly with BOA. So far, that is what this venture sounds like. What is your opinion on that aspect?

Without knowing the deal reached and the venues planned, it's hard to say that MiM will compete directly with BOA. That said, there are only so many bands to recruit to a competition and, regardless of what BOA says, they can't provide the kind of corps-concentrated staff talent to the day-of-show event that MiM can.

I'm pretty sure that any agreement between BOA and DCI wouldn't prevent either from growing, and likely didn't have a non-compete clause. That kind of restriction could come from a formalized agreement that's put in writing, not just the "spirit of cooperation" handshake that they now have. (All speculation; I haven't seen any deal documents.)

Also, in order to use the DCI logo or connective marketing stuff, I'm pretty sure that MiM would have to have agreements with DCI, and I would hope that those agreements have the collective sign-off of all of the BOD. And if all of the BOD of DCI want to go head-to-head against BOA, I wouldn't oppose it out of hand.

And we're still not sure that the areas served by MiM do, in fact, impinge on BOA's turf, do we?

[cixelsyd]

Yes, it is. This is an outside fundraising/business opportunity that those corps have created.

So is DCI.

Should Blue Devils be required to give anyone else a cut of their Bingo proceeds? How about Troopers, since Bingo is a huge part of their financial picture too? The answer is no in both cases.

Who said anything about taking bingo money away from corps? What are you talking about?

Being in a cooperative to split up revenues from shared events like shows is not and should not be a life-sentence to split every penny you make on every aspect of your operations.

I agree. Let me address this again later.

If DCI wanted to produce a bunch of band shows as a way of helping to fund their operations, they've had 40 years to do it. When the non-G7 corps had carte blanche in the Boardroom, there was nothing stopping them from initiating the process. They didn't. So there's no reason to feel that those who are motivated to look for ways to expand their financial base and provide new avenues toward selling brand awareness for their brands shouldn't exercise those options.

Really?

I keep hearing about how it is vitally important that DCI partners with the band activity. At least, that is always an argument presented in defense of certain DCI rule changes. We are told that the band activity is a necessary supplier of our recruits, young spectators, and design/teaching staff. If that is true, then a rift between DCI and BOA could interfere with all that.

There could be a conflict of interest between MiM and DCI on this issue. Maybe the top 7 or so corps do not see a problem - after all, they march all college kids, and their staff will make extra money in this deal. Meanwhile, what about the rest of DCI?

The irony in all of this is that DCI was founded to be a simple cooperative of 10 or 13 drum corps operating within a drum corps activity of over 400 such corps. Only under the urging of our current G7 directors did DCI become the sole drum corps cooperative in North America. They insisted that coordinated scheduling, self-administered judging and standardized business practices were essential to the survival of the activity. Part of that vision was the season-long revenue policy that you (and they) now seem to have a problem with. Live by the sword...

[MelloMatt]

The recent information only shows that the G7 is alive and well. This is not a bad thing per se, but an acknowledgement that these seven corps are still in cahoots trying to make something happen for them. Moving into fall band shows is quite simply the maneuvering of USBands (YEA) to become the premier band circuit in the country. The USBands page states "State Championships for 2012 will be held in New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, Tennessee and Texas. Bands in Connecticut, New England and Rhode Island compete with one another in the New England State Championships." A little more national coverage doesn't hurt, and as far as I know not even BOA reaches coast to coast.

USBands/YEA currently use well known DCI staffers for judging, including Mr. Hopkins himself. I am definitely no expert on this topic, but my general feeling is that fall marching band shows is not only a lucrative revenue stream for YEA and now the G7, but for the individuals involved with the G7. Staffers will be invited to fly in a to judge the shows, and of course will be paid/housed etc. YEA is already doing indoor winter shows, concerts, marching band, drum corps etc. I have heard the main reason some bands do USBands is that they pick up the phone when a band director calls, their website boasts 7am to 7pm business hours during band season. This is much better than leaving a message on an answering machine in someones house and getting a return call days later. YEA's organizational skills can't be denied, they are walking the walk so to speak.

I have to admit to myself that DCI and marching band, indoor etc have become a business. We have people deriving 100% of their income from the activities, and as the marching arts business leaders become leaner and meaner we can only expect more. More competition, more professionals and survival of the fittest. The G7 coup attempt failed in it's original mission, but did take hold. I can see the end game of this being Music in Motion (MiM) and the G7 building brand loyalty with the fall marching band system and at some point in the future extending that loyalty into MiM summer band series consisting of the G7 corps. At that point DCI could become a non player, a partner to MiM in their endeavors, or direct competition to MiM for the summer experience.

I do not have a horse in this race, I don't have the time or desire to fight change, and I have recently committed to stop wining about the good old days and go with the flow. I will be interested to see how it all pans out in the next few years. The bottom line for me is that the kids have the experience of a lifetime, just like I was given. I will help where I can.

BOA does reach Coast to Coast but their numbers do drop a bit on the west coast and in the USBands dominated Northeast.

[cixelsyd]

Without knowing the deal reached and the venues planned, it's hard to say that MiM will compete directly with BOA.

Okay, I know you are not really that naive. They are already competing for top design personalities to serve as judges. If an earlier post in this thread proves accurate, they may be competing for the attention of bands in the same dates/locations. Then it will be venues...

Bands of America is known as the provider of high-end marching band events. That is their specialty. Their events are (from what I am told) the most expensive to enter, but you get what you pay for (marquee judges, choice venues, video coverage, etc.). CMBC/USSBA/USBands has grown primarily by providing similar services to areas that would not pay the BOA price in great enough numbers to sustain a BOA event. I wish this new MiM venture was in that same spirit, but so far it sounds like a shot across (or at) the bow of BOA.

[perc2100]

http://www.yea.org/s...ws_iv_ctrl=1402

http://cavaliers.org...ng-music-series

In case you have seen this yet, MiM is going to be holding 4 high school band contests "across the country" this fall under the rules of USBands...

From the article I assume that these corps' staff will be judging these events. Looks like back door competition for BOA to me, but what do you guys think about this? For me it is a little difficult to separate MiM from DCI; is this the beginning of a coup attempt for the G7 DCI corps to expand into marching band?

Is this just a way for USBands to expand a little?

I wonder why these events are needed or desired. We've got BOA, USBands, and all the local competitive circuits. Not judging yet, but really curious how this will be "different" than BOA.

Maybe the reason will be to get input from G7/MiM staff?

What do you think about it? I know it's not directly corps related, but it is supported by MiM/G7 who are DCI drum corps organizations.

Sounds like a pseudo-fundraiser/brand-building to me. Most of the staffs from those top corps are judges anyway, so it's not some crazy revelation that Mike McIntosh is judging a MiM show (just using him as an example, dunno if he's judging or not).

Now-a-days there are TONS of independent circuits out there. In Southern CA where I live, there are at least 4 LOCAL circuits I can think of, in addition to BoA + USSBA regionals. If MiM wants to start their own circuit, who cares? The more competition there is for circuits, the more circuits need to work hard to ensure a quality experience for directors & students.

[MelloMatt]

There's a regional in St. George, UT, but that is the farthest west that they go. Would be great if they spread out to California, push the level of some of those programs up to BOA level.

They consistently have a regional in southern California, attracting Ayala and Chino Hills. They also are beginning one in Oregon

[mingusmonk]

A few thoughts:

No doubt that this is a shot across the bow at BOA. Intended or perceived. Good or bad. BOA can either realize the challenge and step up their game, or watch the numbers shift.

• As with most of the G7 grabs, I find myself wondering how this benefits all seven. I get it. This time we are dealing with a process that is already in YEA's wheelhouse, so it's not like MiM needs to reinvent the ... wheel ... house? ... But how do the non-YEA corps benefit? I don't run the corps, so it's not like I am presuming I need to be satisfied with the intent and results. Just curious.
• A significant element of MiM's pitch is MiM on-site presence. Adjudication will be MiM staffers. Many organizations actually utilize DCI judges. How is being judged by drum corps staffers any better than being judged by the judges that evaluate the very same drum corps? Seems like a possible step down, no?
• Then there is the more mysterious "The directors and management teams of the top corps will be on-site at each event, as well as staff members experienced in the care of musical ensembles." What does that even mean? What is provided here? Do they think they are so important as to be able to say "Our people will be there, so you should be excited to be in the same building as our people?" Or ... are they offering opportunities of political schmoozing and dealings, a la the greasy under-belly of AAU basketball?
• And to reiterate the music-first priority is a nice touch, if somewhat perplexing approach given the current direction of DCI sheets.

I've never been to a USBands event. Although I suspect (and hope) I will probably be attend one of these a events in the coming years. I would love to have a real world opportunity to evaluate.

Edited March 10, 2014 by mingusmonk

[GUARDLING]

A few thoughts:

No doubt that this is a shot across the bow at BOA. Intended or perceived. Good or bad. BOA can either realize the challenge and step up their game, or watch the numbers shift.

• As with most of the G7 grabs, I find myself wondering how this benefits all seven. I get it. This time we are dealing with a process that is already in YEA's wheelhouse, so it's not like MiM needs to reinvent the ... wheel ... house? ... But how do the non-YEA corps benefit? I don't run the corps, so it's not like I am presuming I need to be satisfied with the intent and results. Just curious.
• A significant element of MiM's pitch is MiM on-site presence. Adjudication will be MiM staffers. Many organizations actually utilize DCI judges. How is being judged by drum corps staffers any better than being judged by the judges that evaluate the very same drum corps? Seems like a possible step down, no?
• Then there is the more mysterious "The directors and management teams of the top corps will be on-site at each event, as well as staff members experienced in the care of musical ensembles." What does that even mean? What is provided here? Do they think they are so important as to be able to say "Our people will be there, so you should be excited to be in the same building as our people?" Or ... are they offering opportunities of political schmoozing and dealings, a la the greasy under-belly of AAU basketball?
• And to reiterate the music-first priority is a nice touch, if somewhat perplexing approach given the current direction of DCI sheets.

I've never been to a USBands event. Although I suspect (and hope) I will probably be attend one of these a events in the coming years. I would love to have a real world opportunity to evaluate.

whats so surprising about music with a few more points? Its a HS.. a music education program......why wouldnt DCI be different, Just like BITD when music carried more weight...the better corps knew the importance of the guard and visuals and it became inherent in every caption.. so even with less points it carried a huge amount of weight. Good band directors know this and dropped the guard isnt as important mentality decades ago...at least the successful ones get it.

Its great you want to evaluate some of these things in the future...I think you will be quite surprised, I know I was when I finally broke down and said yes to teaching some pretty darn good HS bands....

[Jeff Ream]

I want to read this a couple more times, but I'm not seeing the conflict. What sort of information shared in the DCI boardroom would represent a conflict?

Basically a way to make this work for them and only them. puting themselves head to head with BOA, gathering the best bands where they get blasted with marketing materials these corps alone.

Now...I don't think this particular idea is all that bad or nefarious, but given the recent history in the board room, anything they do will be viewed with suspicion. and since few band circuits or drum corps have an office staff like say YEA does, that of course gives them a huge advantage

[Jeff Ream]

BOA does reach Coast to Coast but their numbers do drop a bit on the west coast and in the USBands dominated Northeast.

well....USBAnds has a large presence in the Northeast, but I wouldn't say they dominate. USBands has had little to no presence in western PA, which is served by 3 circuits, one which also covers the rest of PA, NJ, MD, WV and DE, which is TOB. Cavalcade of bands also has a large presence in Eastern PA and NJ, and has dabbled in MD and WV. USBands numbers in PA have actually been dropping the last few years.