tesmusic Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) part of it is the bleedover over visual demand into the music captions. the brass and percussion books were not as "notey" as others below them, but they got credit because of the visual demands, and because they weren't as "notey", it made sound great as an ensemble. it's not as bad now, but my God, some tapes I've heard from the early 2000's on the field may have been visual tapes with music commentary sprinkled in. See, my thing is that even though they weren't notey, I don't really feel as though they were played all that well either. Granted, I will agree the visual demand was high, but there have been plenty of corps that have placed incredible demand on their members, and not given credit the way some did with the early 2000 Cavaliers. I just really think that many people, judges, fans, etc. just bought into the shock and awe and let them get away with crap that really wasn't that good. Not to take anything away from the members, but those shows were filthy. I couldn't tell you the number of laps I would have had to run or push ups I would have wanted to do with music and drill that was performed that poorly. Not trying to be a hater, just really can't believe how these shows have been given so much credit. Cadets 2000 should have won outright, 2001 BD deserved the Gold, 2002 BD deserved it in my opinion, 2004 SCV should have been 1st in my opinion. Maybe my thoughts are why I could never be a judge though, lol. Edited April 23, 2014 by tesmusic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RContra Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 See, my thing is that even though they weren't notey, I don't really feel as though they were played all that well either. Granted, I will agree the visual demand was high, but there have been plenty of corps that have placed incredible demand on their members, and not given credit the way some did with the early 2000 Cavaliers. I just really think that many people, judges, fans, etc. just bought into the shock and awe and let them get away with crap that really wasn't that good. Not to take anything away from the members, but those shows were filthy. I couldn't tell you the number of laps I would have had to run or push ups I would have wanted to do with music and drill that was performed that poorly. Not trying to be a hater, just really can't believe how these shows have been given so much credit. Cadets 2000 should have won outright, 2001 BD deserved the Gold, 2002 BD deserved it in my opinion, 2004 SCV should have been 1st in my opinion. Maybe my thoughts are why I could never be a judge though, lol. As someone who was on the field in a corps closely competing with Cavaliers throughout each of those years, I would disagree with each, as would just about everyone I marched with, though we would have loathed to admit it at the time. lol Those dynasty years were some of the best design we've ever seen, with performers doing things at a level that was just leaps and bounds beyond what the rest of us were doing. Oy. It still feels dirty to admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabrefan62 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 2011 Cadets. Half the corps was off for most of the show. Came in at the wrong time. Couldn't lay their instruments in a straight line. Didn't even wear the correct uniforms. I'll admit...I laughed for a while at this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RContra Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 That 2002 show in my opinion is by far the dirtiest show that has and will ever win a championship. Just watched it again last night and I wouldn't have put it above 3rd that year. Please, never go into judging. Also, you may want to get your hearing and eyesight checked. (apologies--I didn't know how to put this into my last post!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Yes, that is a tad frightening!!! Take 2 aspirin, or any white pill you can get from Mike Dominic, and ignore me in the morning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Adam Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) We're also looking at shows when we are many years past them.... sometimes when you're in the moment and feeling the intangibles of following the corps for the season you remember how a corps' performance made you feel more than how well it was executed. One of my co-teachers once said to me that we spend so much time "cleaning" things no one will ever notice just so it can "feel" like we are better than another corps. Case in point, side by side comparison three years down the road will probably tell you BD was "cleaner" than Crown this year but that's not what I was judging, I was judging the excitement I felt from Crown while watching them steamroll into championships. Now after I view/listen to the show 20,000 times I find I'm less forgiving of things that I was before and I'm no longer in "awe" of their performance, so I have to remind myself at that time, in the moment, I was blown away. 2002 Cavies visually was mind blowing for me and watching it now I'm like 'meh'.... but at the time..... just wow. That's just me, but I need to remind myself of that sometimes. on the flipside 04 Cavies when I competed against them I thought they were awfully dirty.... now I don't care, I'm actually glad they won. It's a show that I play for a lot of "new" drum corps people. It's fun and energetic and at the end of the day the stuff I noticed in the moment doesn't really bother me as much now. There weren't many people marching Cadets tempos in 93, so yeah, feet are messy but at that time...... not a lot of people were even attempting stuff like that. Edited April 23, 2014 by Big Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 That's the funky thing about judging. We as fans, or even members, are likely always thinking about the big picture/total package. But NONE of the judges really think that way: they think in terms of a very specific caption with specific criteria in mind. The Effect judges come the closest to evaluating the total package, but even then the sheets skew to a narrow(ish) focus. The DCI scores currently are the sum/average of TEN people's rankings/ratings, and just because a corps scores lower on one sheet doesn't mean the corps can't max out every other sheet and still win. This a million times over. We (as fans) watch shows and react (through the lense of our bias and experience) to the whole thing at once. Dudes in the shirts watch a very narrow subset of the show and try really hard to ignore everything else. The rest is just math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Cavies had an amazing brass line in 2002. It wasn't a dense book, but man those kids could play with absolute beautiful tone and intonation. Didn't they win the Ott that year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 In 1989, just two weeks before finals, SCV discovered they had two over-age members, and kicked them out. One was a snare, the other a horn player. It was too close to finals to adjust the drill. This is why you can see a recurring hole in the horn line, and why the snare line sometimes seemed to be playing bumper cars. I am guessing that the judges were made aware of this problem, and cut SCV a bit of slack as a result. If you want more details, there are a some interesting DCP threads on the issue. Basically, the over-age members were both from England, and had lied on their visa application about their age, thus not only enraging Gail Royer, but setting themselves up for criminal charges as well. I wasn't aware one of the overage members was a snare. You're right - that makes the accordion thing in the snare line more understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I absolutely agree that show deserved to win. The show had pretty much everything you'd want from a drum corps show, just not everything that warranted that score. agreed. I saw it live...and I thought it was over rated. Best of the bunch? Easily.Even with recent BD offerings I've been less than fond of, they deserved to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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