Instauration in Indy: 6/18

[vanguard87]

(I know the answer to this but) why is there so much hype about groups, that are then a let down when they first perform. A few pages back someone was saying that Cavaliers will be top 3-4 this year after viewing them - for them to come 4th and look more likely in the 6-10th range. Lots of hype about Madision but from watching the videos they seem really behind (esp the guard).

1. Anybody who has seen a particular corps enough to form a strong (particularly a strongly positive) opinion before the season even starts is likely to be an alum/parent/superfan with a bias to that corps.

2. People forget to account for the drum corps version of the Flynn effect: On the whole, corps are getting better year to year (in technical proficiency and in designing points-maximizing shows), so it's entirely possible to be better than last year and not do better than last year.

3. Even if someone is aware of the tendency to overhype one's own corps, only an eccentric billionaire would have the means to get a read on all of the corps in the same peer group before the season starts.

4. The DCP equivalent of the Dunning-Kruger effect: Someone who is overhyping is likely to post on DCP; someone who knows better (or at least knows the value of being the corps that nobody saw coming) is likely to keep their mouth shut.

5. Talk is cheap.

Incidentally, the flip side of the tendency to overhype your home team is the tendency to form iron-clad opinions about the opposition after the first webcast and a handful of online videos.

[garfield]

1. Anybody who has seen a particular corps enough to form a strong (particularly a strongly positive) opinion before the season even starts is likely to be an alum/parent/superfan with a bias to that corps.

2. People forget to account for the drum corps version of the Flynn effect: On the whole, corps are getting better year to year (in technical proficiency and in designing points-maximizing shows), so it's entirely possible to be better than last year and not do better than last year.

3. Even if someone is aware of the tendency to overhype one's own corps, only an eccentric billionaire would have the means to get a read on all of the corps in the same peer group before the season starts.

4. The DCP equivalent of the Dunning-Kruger effect: Someone who is overhyping is likely to post on DCP; someone who knows better (or at least knows the value of being the corps that nobody saw coming) is likely to keep their mouth shut.

5. Talk is cheap.

Incidentally, the flip side of the tendency to overhype your home team is the tendency to form iron-clad opinions about the opposition after the first webcast and a handful of online videos.

Can't beat Mother Nature.

Or human nature either, for that matter.

[2muchcoffeeman]

The [2013] show to me had a theme, and that was just portraying what the Troopers are all about, and a little bit of a throw back to where they have come from and an arrow ahead to where they want to go.

I'd suggest that one reason why the 2013 show seemed to covey such a strong sense of direction (i.e., be an "arrow") is that it was so not 2012. It was a clarion call, a re-affirmation of identity.

The 2014 production, clearly, is a continuation of that direction, perhaps even more strongly. And it seems inconsistent, to say nothing of frustrating, to hear that being held against Troopers (America again?) while other corps are applauded for doing the same thing relative to their own identities.

Now, setting that aside and looking only at the 11 minutes of the show itself, I can certainly tolerate critique of how the individual production works. And if you think the current version of the show loses a bit of focus in the middle, that's fine. I will say that, to my admittedly fanboy eyes, I see even tighter continuity to this year's show vs. 2013. One example is the perc feature. In 2013, it was a separate movement, and musically it sounded more like it came from the jungles of Brazil than form the American West. This year, the perc features are more tightly integrated with the red-white-and-blue music of the full ensemble.

That Lincoln face, though. Not sure what that's all about. It all felt a bit clunky to me, especially the way the guard rolled it up and got it off the field. But, hey, 31 more shows to go.

[DrumManTx]

I'd suggest that one reason why the 2013 show seemed to covey such a strong sense of direction (i.e., be an "arrow") is that it was so not 2012. It was a clarion call, a re-affirmation of identity.

The 2014 production, clearly, is a continuation of that direction, perhaps even more strongly. And it seems inconsistent, to say nothing of frustrating, to hear that being held against Troopers (America again?) while other corps are applauded for doing the same thing relative to their own identities.

Now, setting that aside and looking only at the 11 minutes of the show itself, I can certainly tolerate critique of how the individual production works. And if you think the current version of the show loses a bit of focus in the middle, that's fine. I will say that, to my admittedly fanboy eyes, I see even tighter continuity to this year's show vs. 2013. One example is the perc feature. In 2013, it was a separate movement, and musically it sounded more like it came from the jungles of Brazil than form the American West. This year, the perc features are more tightly integrated with the red-white-and-blue music of the full ensemble.

That Lincoln face, though. Not sure what that's all about. It all felt a bit clunky to me, especially the way the guard rolled it up and got it off the field. But, hey, 31 more shows to go.

I never said that. I love Troopers doing Murica, it's part of their identity, they're Americas Corps after all.

I think this show has huge potential and more depth than last year, I think it just needs a little more to tie the show together into a complete production. Maybe that's what I meant in those many paragraphs. Which they can and will do, I'm sure, those were just early season observations, I don't see it being a season long problem, just 1st show observations.

Edited June 19, 2014 by DrumManTx

[Cappybara]

I'd suggest that one reason why the 2013 show seemed to covey such a strong sense of direction (i.e., be an "arrow") is that it was so not 2012. It was a clarion call, a re-affirmation of identity.

The 2014 production, clearly, is a continuation of that direction, perhaps even more strongly. And it seems inconsistent, to say nothing of frustrating, to hear that being held against Troopers (America again?) while other corps are applauded for doing the same thing relative to their own identities.

Now, setting that aside and looking only at the 11 minutes of the show itself, I can certainly tolerate critique of how the individual production works. And if you think the current version of the show loses a bit of focus in the middle, that's fine. I will say that, to my admittedly fanboy eyes, I see even tighter continuity to this year's show vs. 2013. One example is the perc feature. In 2013, it was a separate movement, and musically it sounded more like it came from the jungles of Brazil than form the American West. This year, the perc features are more tightly integrated with the red-white-and-blue music of the full ensemble.

That Lincoln face, though. Not sure what that's all about. It all felt a bit clunky to me, especially the way the guard rolled it up and got it off the field. But, hey, 31 more shows to go.

Troopers repeatedly doing an American show is very different from Phantom doing a show where someone dies. Phantom's shows explore a large range of classical music and each storyline is different. Hearing the same old American pieces again and again is kind of boring.

[mrk]

I was at the show last night and I watched most of the shows again this afternoon on the Fan Network. Having read a significant number of posts on this thread I think I've learned a lot more about opinion expressing than I did about last night's performances.

I brought a family of four with me, including two youngsters who were being introduced to the world of drum corps for the first time. Our seats were high near the 30-yard line. Some comments about our experience - which, by the by, was all the more rewarding thanks to the perspectives of the first timers, ages 8 and 11.

The Troopers sounded good, but much better on Fan Network than from where we sat last night. The Troopers horn line did not fill the stadium as much as those who followed. This became obvious to me when the eyes of the boys widened as soon as the Cavaliers began. They commented that the Cavies were "faster, louder and harder to watch" (harder in this case being a positive because "there was a lot more going on all over the place"). They didn't get the Immortal theme, but rather identified with "red" verses the "green". As they had watched the Troopers warm up, they were almost disappointed to share their opinion that the Cavies were "much better". They were slightly more impressed with Phantom, especially enamored with the gradual uniform change. Both boys declared that Phantom would beat Cavailiers. Although they agreed, their mom and dad expressed disappointment with Phantom solely based on an electronic keyboard glitch that pulled them out of the moment and the connection they had made to the show. Everyone liked the Cadets, but the 11-year-old stated that the platform behind the pit made the field "seem smaller". We had no problem understanding the Cadet's narrator, but when they transitioned from live narration to recordings, from my seat, it was muddy and a little difficult to understand. The transitions, for me, became more of a distraction to the program than an enhancement. They liked most of Crown's show, but were clearly underwhelmed with how the trampolines were used. The site of trampolines created an expectation that, for them, clearly did not deliver.

It is noteworthy that they correctly predicted the placements, and for the most part, the spreads (they thought Cavies were "much better" than Troopers,. Phantom "a little better" than Cavies, etc.) Full disclosure, they only placed the Cadets ahead of Crown because of the two tuba players who fell on our side of the field. The fall happened just as they were pointing out the "cool crossing lines" to their dad. Also, they had already served notice that they thought Carolina's uniform was "weird".

Regarding the lack of an encore, I fully understood and support the decision to forgo one last night, both as a ticket purchaser and a Fan Network subscriber. Regarding the observation of the large number of people leaving before scores were announced, Many of those seen moving out of the stadium were making their way to busses and/or the corps merchandising area. That said, I'm certain they could hear the announced scores a mile away from the stadium. Announcer volume. Way. Too. Loud.

I share the above not to dispute or challenge any previously posted opinions. But to add another perspective and to add another friendly reminder that context is everything. My companions certainly did not appreciate the same things I did, especially the source music/themes or individual corps history of which they knew little to nothing beyond my answers to the questions they asked me. What we all appreciated was the uniqueness of the experience, made all the more unique by our individual preferences, backgrounds, ages, even where we happened to be looking at any given moment in a show.

Edited June 19, 2014 by mrk

[eric49]

I love the shakos :)

Boy, you just had a bad night! Edited June 19, 2014 by eric49

[DrumManTx]

I was at the show last night and I watched most of the shows again this afternoon on the Fan Network. Having read a significant number of posts on this thread I think I've learned a lot more about opinion expressing than I did about last night's performances.

I brought a family of four with me, including two youngsters who were being introduced to the world of drum corps for the first time. Our seats were high near the 30-yard line. Some comments about our experience - which, by the by, was all the more rewarding thanks to the perspectives of the first timers, ages 8 and 11.

The Troopers sounded good, but much better on Fan Network than from where we sat last night. The Troopers horn line did not fill the stadium as much as those who followed. This became obvious to me when the eyes of the boys widened as soon as the Cavaliers began. They commented that the Cavies were "faster, louder and harder to watch" (harder in this case being a positive because "there was a lot more going on all over the place"). They didn't get the Immortal theme, but rather identified with "red" verses the "green". As they had watched the Troopers warm up, they were almost disappointed to share their opinion that the Cavies were "much better". They were slightly more impressed with Phantom, especially enamored with the gradual uniform change. Both boys declared that Phantom would beat Cavailiers. Although they agreed, their mom and dad expressed disappointment with Phantom solely based on an electronic keyboard glitch that pulled them out of the moment and the connection they had made to the show. Everyone liked the Cadets, but the 11-year-old stated that the platform behind the pit made the field "seem smaller". We had no problem understanding the Cadet's narrator, but when they transitioned from live narration to recordings, from my seat, it was muddy and a little difficult to understand. The transitions, for me, became more of a distraction to the program than an enhancement. They liked most of Crown's show, but were clearly underwhelmed with how the trampolines were used. The site of trampolines created an expectation that, for them, clearly did not deliver.

It is noteworthy that they correctly predicted the placements, and for the most part, the spreads (they thought Cavies were "much better" than Troopers,. Phantom "a little better" than Cavies, etc.) Full disclosure, they only placed the Cadets ahead of Crown because of the two tuba players who fell that on our side of the field. The fall happened just as they were pointing out the "cool crossing lines" to their dad. Also, they had already served notice that they thought Carolina's uniform was "weird".

Regarding the lack of an encore, I fully understood and support the decision to forgo one last night, both as a ticket purchaser and a Fan Network subscriber. Regarding the observation of the large number of people leaving before scores were announced, Many of those seen moving out of the stadium were making their way to busses and/or the corps merchandising area. That said, I'm certain they could hear the announced scores a mile away from the stadium. Announcer volume. Way. Too. Loud.

I share the above not to dispute or challenge any previously posted opinions. But to add another perspective and to add another friendly reminder that context is everything. My companions certainly did not appreciate the same things I did, especially the source music/themes or individual corps history of which they knew little to nothing beyond my answers to the questions they asked me. What we all appreciated was the uniqueness of the experience, made all the more unique by our individual preferences, backgrounds, ages, even where we happened to be looking at any given moment in a show.

Nice to hear something from someone who was actually there! Thanks for the insight.

[seen-it-all]

I share the above not to dispute or challenge any previously posted opinions. But to add another perspective and to add another friendly reminder that context is everything. My companions certainly did not appreciate the same things I did, especially the source music/themes or individual corps history of which they knew little to nothing beyond my answers to the questions they asked me. What we all appreciated was the uniqueness of the experience, made all the more unique by our individual preferences, backgrounds, ages, even where we happened to be looking at any given moment in a show.

Thanks for the review, and that last bit about context and perspective!

[Pete Freedman]

I was at the show last night and I watched most of the shows again this afternoon on the Fan Network. Having read a significant number of posts on this thread I think I've learned a lot more about opinion expressing than I did about last night's performances.

...

Yes, an important update: The sliced VODs are already up on FN. Way to go Fan Network!