Can Bluecoats win gold?

[perc2100]

I don't think so; Blue Devils have a better design. Even if Bluecoats perform comparably to BD BD will beat them based on a better show design. Bluecoats would have to be performing flawlessly, IMO, to overtake BD this year and I don't see them performing BETTER than BD.

I do think they can compete with Cadets, though I think that might also be difficult. If there's one thing we all know about Cadets, it's they are great at cleaning down the stretch, listening to the right judges + tweaking design to max out the sheets, etc. I think it is far more plausible that Cadets will close the gap with BD and Bluecoats will be a solid 3rd. I think Cadets can get at least within .5 of BD, Bluecoats can get maybe .5/.6 with Cadets, and then maintain a strongish spread over SCV.

But who knows: there is still a lot of drum corps left this summer!

FWIW I think it's more plausible Bluecoats will finish with a solid 3rd w/their highest score ever and contend for Gold next year

[Cappybara]

I don't think so; Blue Devils have a better design. Even if Bluecoats perform comparably to BD BD will beat them based on a better show design. Bluecoats would have to be performing flawlessly, IMO, to overtake BD this year and I don't see them performing BETTER than BD.

I do think they can compete with Cadets, though I think that might also be difficult. If there's one thing we all know about Cadets, it's they are great at cleaning down the stretch, listening to the right judges + tweaking design to max out the sheets, etc. I think it is far more plausible that Cadets will close the gap with BD and Bluecoats will be a solid 3rd. I think Cadets can get at least within .5 of BD, Bluecoats can get maybe .5/.6 with Cadets, and then maintain a strongish spread over SCV.

But who knows: there is still a lot of drum corps left this summer!

FWIW I think it's more plausible Bluecoats will finish with a solid 3rd w/their highest score ever and contend for Gold next year

Honestly it's still anyone's game. Crown wasn't too for from Bloo last night and we don't know where SCV is in relation to those two just yet. Looks like a fight for 3rd this year.

[blueorginal]

Bluuuuuuuuuuue has set themselves up for great success this year and next year they can do "CURVE" then "Squiggly Line" Or "Circles".....Right Angles, Triangles..............:)

[Ghost]

Could they? Yes. Will they? Not likely. I'm picking the BD since they have everything the judges are loving this year. Guard will probably earn a 20 at finals.

[zigzigZAG]

Hey superOOk, I think the main problem isn't that ziggy ziggy ziggy is WRONG, but that so much of his/her assertions are opinion only.

Statements like "but it is demanding? Doubtful." and "but doesn't take much skill." doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in Ziggity Ziggity Zoo's "read".

It's not a matter of opinion if you take the time to measure how much actual playing the horn line is doing, and the difficulty of that playing (book alone, as well as marching while playing).

I can't recall seeing a top-5 show recently that allows most of the horn line to rest for so long.

The percussion book, as I said, is demanding on all levels. I simply think that the Coats would be taking shows from Cadets and BD if their brass players did a bit less prop manipulation, standstills, and running around.

BD, Cadets, and Crown all have more demanding shows - marching while playing, and the book specifically.

Look - I LOVE the Coats this year, and they should be the audience favorite. I'm just taking a bit of time to diagnose a few things, possibly in the hopes that more demand can be added in the final three weeks so that this show is competitive for gold. It's not enough just to clean this thing, I fear.

[quietcity]

Wow do I disagree with this. I find the music to be coherent and thematic throughout. I guess that's what makes this idiom so interesting.

Hmm, you have made me want to go watch their show again. Opening up FN now, will report back later....

[cowtown]

Seems like a lot of DCPers are watching shows with a stop watch in hand

This is odd, strange behavior

[DAvery]

With a few DCP members predicting the Bluecoats make a huge surge and take gold this year, and with me enjoying that kind of talk for the first time, I've taken a bit of time to study the show again.

All those who are fans of the show (and one poster here who's on the board of the corps), help me understand the show a bit.

I'm going to play devils advocate here (and I don't mean I'm advocating for the Devils either). I'm a longtime fan of Bloo, as I had a number of friends from my high school and undergrad days who'd drive down from Cleveland to Canton every week to build the corps into a perennial top-12 group. In fact, I first heard about DCI because of Bloo when I was in middle school in the early 80s, and they were recruiting kids entering high school as they were building the corps.

My question here is - do they have enough to win gold? I'm comparing them against past gold medal winners' shows.

As I read it, there's not quite enough content and demand to pull it off.

They've taken many pages out of Cavies' brass and drill book - minimal playing and marching simultaneously. Hard passages are standstill, or sitting/leaning on the props. I timed nearly 5 minutes of the show that the entire horn line was not playing (I'm not including the couple brass features with only one-third of them playing, like the brass feature with quick runs when they were leaning or sitting on the props). Or one half of the horn line will play standing still, and the others run into the new set. I call that sleight-of-hand. Others call it "staging".

The consequence - the brass book in general doesn't have the content that I've seen in past gold medal shows.

I see lots and lots of body movement, maybe more than Crown usually has, but it is demanding? Doubtful. Leaning right and left isn't as hard as marching and playing, not to speak of doing so at a high tempo (as we've seen from many past champions).

The big WOW moment isn't particularly difficult for the corps. They play three chords and do a bit of slow body movement, mostly moving when they're not playing. Very cool, but doesn't take much skill. And again, we have the final 30 seconds of the show without anyone playing, just like we have for the first 30 seconds of the show. Body movement and running into position, or manipulating props.

I don't hear demand in general from the brass book. Reminds me of some Cavies shows that were all about the visual, and the music was minimal, and what music was there, was hardly very challenging.

The percussion book is more demanding, I concede. And they have some of their most difficult stuff while moving pretty fast, and doing body movement. They do have enough here to take the drum trophy.

In general, this show is about props and the 'tilt' concept, rather than music or drill.

"Tilt" is about how much DCI has leaned towards WGI, and how WGI judges score body movement as highly as demanding drill. In my book, difficulty should count for something.

I see more content and demand - even, surprisingly simultaneous marching/playing demand a for a few features - from BD, Crown and Cadets.

As much as I'd like to see a first-time champion this year, I'm skeptical that there is enough 'there' there in Tilt to beat the others in the top 4.

So, devil's advocacy over. How am I wrong?

I don't quite understand your logic. You say Bloo has taken elements from the Cavies play book and seem to site that as a reason they can't win. But didn't the Cavies win with that same play book?

[emc2]

With a few DCP members predicting the Bluecoats make a huge surge and take gold this year, and with me enjoying that kind of talk for the first time, I've taken a bit of time to study the show again.

All those who are fans of the show (and one poster here who's on the board of the corps), help me understand the show a bit.

I'm going to play devils advocate here (and I don't mean I'm advocating for the Devils either). I'm a longtime fan of Bloo, as I had a number of friends from my high school and undergrad days who'd drive down from Cleveland to Canton every week to build the corps into a perennial top-12 group. In fact, I first heard about DCI because of Bloo when I was in middle school in the early 80s, and they were recruiting kids entering high school as they were building the corps.

My question here is - do they have enough to win gold? I'm comparing them against past gold medal winners' shows.

As I read it, there's not quite enough content and demand to pull it off.

They've taken many pages out of Cavies' brass and drill book - minimal playing and marching simultaneously. Hard passages are standstill, or sitting/leaning on the props. I timed nearly 5 minutes of the show that the entire horn line was not playing (I'm not including the couple brass features with only one-third of them playing, like the brass feature with quick runs when they were leaning or sitting on the props). Or one half of the horn line will play standing still, and the others run into the new set. I call that sleight-of-hand. Others call it "staging".

The consequence - the brass book in general doesn't have the content that I've seen in past gold medal shows.

I see lots and lots of body movement, maybe more than Crown usually has, but it is demanding? Doubtful. Leaning right and left isn't as hard as marching and playing, not to speak of doing so at a high tempo (as we've seen from many past champions).

The big WOW moment isn't particularly difficult for the corps. They play three chords and do a bit of slow body movement, mostly moving when they're not playing. Very cool, but doesn't take much skill. And again, we have the final 30 seconds of the show without anyone playing, just like we have for the first 30 seconds of the show. Body movement and running into position, or manipulating props.

I don't hear demand in general from the brass book. Reminds me of some Cavies shows that were all about the visual, and the music was minimal, and what music was there, was hardly very challenging.

The percussion book is more demanding, I concede. And they have some of their most difficult stuff while moving pretty fast, and doing body movement. They do have enough here to take the drum trophy.

In general, this show is about props and the 'tilt' concept, rather than music or drill.

"Tilt" is about how much DCI has leaned towards WGI, and how WGI judges score body movement as highly as demanding drill. In my book, difficulty should count for something.

I see more content and demand - even, surprisingly simultaneous marching/playing demand a for a few features - from BD, Crown and Cadets.

As much as I'd like to see a first-time champion this year, I'm skeptical that there is enough 'there' there in Tilt to beat the others in the top 4.

So, devil's advocacy over. How am I wrong?

Why not we have not had a midwest winner in a few years. Give it to them.

[Pete Freedman]

About a month ago I went through the bknights.org standings for the last decade or so. I was looking for come-from-behind victories, specifically cases where the championship winning corps was generally running behind for much of the season. What I found was that nobody won the title from more than about 2 points back.

It was quite approximate, however; it was just based on the visual examination of the charts. There were (I think) 3 cases when corps won from about 2 points back; Cadets in 2011, Phantom in 2008 and I think Cavaliers somewhere early in the 2000s.

Bloo is running about 2 points back right now. The chart as of today shows Cadets leading BD, but they were not at the same show, and I think BD is running perhaps just under a point ahead of Cadets. Bloo is just over a point behind Cadets.

So there is precedent for this victory (Go Bloo!) but it's a long shot obviously.

Crown is really running about even with Bloo on average over the last two weeks, so they're not out of the running for gold either. Santa Clara seems just outside that range, but maybe...