Can Bluecoats win gold?

[superOOk]

Barf.

You are absolutely correct in noting that my tastes interfere with my assessment of BC's show. Good thing I am not a judge. That said, I adore Aaron Copland, but I really do not like what Cadets have done with him this year, and I don't mean the narration. I think their arrangement and thematic deployment of the various Copland pieces is heavy-handed and a bit stultifying over the course of the show.

I have listened to BC's source material, and I admire them for exploring such works. The opening Braxton pieces remind me of Frank Zappa's more experimental stuff, albeit a little less crazed. I think BC did a great job capturing the essence of Uffe's Woodshop. But the piece itself is little more than syncopated dotted eighths played in polyrhythm. Neat, but not the music that I find moving or meaningful. Not the kind of music that sticks in my head.

I watched a video of Vienna Teng explaining the origins of "Hymn of Acxiom". She said she was noodling on the piano, and this pleasant melody came out. But she was unsatisfied, as she was not looking for just another pretty piano piece. So she added strange electronic vocalizations and lyrics. She felt these edgy editions juxtaposed with the pretty melody gave "Hymn" its essence. But of course, BC are playing just the pretty melody, and so the intent of the composer is not really relevant.

Overall, BC's show is thematically very coherent, and visually exciting. It is a great package, one of the best this year. But from a purely lyrical and musical effect point of reference, it seems a bit dry and shallow. Beyond the fireworks of the visuals and flurry of notes, the show does not have the emotional depth of BD, Cadets or SCV.

[DrumManTx]

I watched a video of Vienna Teng explaining the origins of "Hymn of Acxiom". She said she was noodling on the piano, and this pleasant melody came out. But she was unsatisfied, as she was not looking for just another pretty piano piece. So she added strange electronic vocalizations and lyrics. She felt these edgy editions juxtaposed with the pretty melody gave "Hymn" its essence. But of course, BC are playing just the pretty melody, and so the intent of the composer is not really relevant.

I just went back and listened to each the original and Bluecoats treatment, it's pretty much an exact transcription to the drum corps idiom, beginning to end with a few minor subtle changes, but it's definitely not just the melody. To me that is the most true to the original piece on the field this year, but maybe that's just me.

[N.E. Brigand]

And they chose this music first, and they explained why they picked the theme secondary. All these modern composers have traditional ideas that they tilt and skew into something more modern.

I'm glad someone mentioned this. That fact doesn't necessarily make a show better, but it does undercut claims that Bluecoats' show is driven by concept more than music.

Too much ... lugging around props to different sets? Talk to Carolina Crown, Santa Clara Vanguard, and ESPECIALLY Blue Devils about that. At least when Bluecoats are moving around props they are uniform in how they do it, BD just kinda lazily and casually pushes stuff around.

I don't think Crown moves their props much in the show, in fact, until they added the late trampoline move in the past week or so, could they have been said to lug anything during the performance? (Or were you talking specifically about body movement as regards Crown?) SCV may have the cleanest prop movement of the other three, because the props can be carried and are largely set in tight formations or straight lines. But I agree that BD has been at least as sloppy in this regard as Bluecoats, although they may be able to justify that partly on the grounds of the theme.

[DWilliams]

It's really interesting you say this because the designers have said that with this show the Music selections and music design came first before the concept of "tilt" was even discussed.

OOH

[DWilliams]

I read your posts on The Cadets topic, and then I read this. Pretty obvious who you're rooting for and who you don't want to overtake them. Which is cool, but it makes it kind of hard to take this completely seriously. To be fair, I think it's going to be hard to take down The Cadets, possible, yes, but it's going to be tough. Blue Devils? I dunno, we'll see, I think they're unreachable at this point but that could change, there's still 3 weeks left after all.

I'm not going to say wrong as much as disagree or think some of your points are exaggerated in the following points:

We'll see, but if that was the case they'd be peaking and their content numbers would be very close or matching their achievement numbers and would have far less of a discrepancy in their content versus achievement in scoring, they're actually right with The Cadets and Blue Devils in that respect, though Vanguard according to San Antonio has the most room to grow with the current state of their show in the top 5. In comparison with the rest of the top 5, here's the difference in that category in San Antonio:

Santa Clara Vanguard + 1.8 in favor of content

Blue Devils + 1.6 in favor of content

The Cadets + 1.5 in favor of content

Bluecoats + 1.5 in favor of content

Carolina Crown + .8 in favor of content.

So, with the current state of their show they have as much room to grow as the current top 2, but not as much as Santa Clara, so watch out there.

When I listen to the past few winners, yes I agree. But going back to pre 2009, I think easier books have been in gold medal shows. I use the term easy loosely, that's of course in comparison to Carolina Crown last year and this year, Blue Devils, ect. but sometimes is being difficult for the sake of being difficult worthless? Crown has a bunch of notes this year and are winning brass, but is it really that effective? Not according to their scores. Also, the only shows that have won brass since Championships and also won the title? 2013 and 2010. Theirs isn't as difficult as Blue Devils or Crowns, but it has demand and if they get it clean enough, they'll be fine.

And they won in 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006, and medealed in 2003, 2005, 2007, and 2008 with that formula, so it obviously works. And to be fair, that's getting a little nit picky. I'll go back tonight and time it just to make sure you're not exaggerating here. I can think of another group that does this and competes very well.

First of all, you're kinda repeating yourself here. Secondly, I hear all the time from Blue Devils and Cadets homers when someone calls out something as being easy that it's actually really hard, they're just doing it so well that they're making it look really easy and effortless, same can't apply to the Cavaliers and Bluecoats?

Glad to see we agree on 1 thing.

I like to be polite, but are you ####### serious? You're telling me, that there's nothing, at all, in the music and drill that hints to the concept? Yes, the props and tarp certainly push it over the top, but there's all sorts of stuff going other than the super effective props and tarps. There's not ONE single straight horizontal across block form in this show, which a few other shows are chock full of. There's linear forms, yes, but more often than not the linear forms are skewed and tilted all over the place, which are harder to dress than a straight linear or block form. And they chose this music first, and they explained why they picked the theme secondary. All these modern composers have traditional ideas that they tilt and skew into something more modern.

Yes, there's quite a bit of body movement, but if you're saying there's not enough difficulty in the visual and drum book, you're wrong. You're acting like it's easy, and it's not. As difficult as what some of the others are doing? Maybe not. But there's a fine line between difficulty and achievability, and I think Bluecoats are riding it NICELY. People keep pointing out that there's still quite a few visual issues, yet their show is easy and peaking? Talk about a contradiction. Too much body movement and lugging around props to different sets? Talk to Carolina Crown, Santa Clara Vanguard, and ESPECIALLY Blue Devils about that. At least when Bluecoats are moving around props they are uniform in how they do it, BD just kinda lazily and casually pushes stuff around. You say that their show isn't difficult, but the numbers disagree with you.

They've already beat two of them and have been riding around a point behind the Cadets for the past few days, we'll see if that continues, but it's certainly not an impossible gap to close.

ily

[wesleyrp]

Yes Bloo can win.... But BD and Cadets are super strong gonna need to be squeaky clean and add to the ending

[corps8294]

They've already won the gold...with the fans, anyway.

[GUARDLING]

I'm glad someone mentioned this. That fact doesn't necessarily make a show better, but it does undercut claims that Bluecoats' show is driven by concept more than music.

I don't think Crown moves their props much in the show, in fact, until they added the late trampoline move in the past week or so, could they have been said to lug anything during the performance? (Or were you talking specifically about body movement as regards Crown?) SCV may have the cleanest prop movement of the other three, because the props can be carried and are largely set in tight formations or straight lines. But I agree that BD has been at least as sloppy in this regard as Bluecoats, although they may be able to justify that partly on the grounds of the theme.

actually it isnt an uncommon thing to pick music then theme or reverse. WGI which is all visual driven , often designers find some music they like and build a theme around it.

Edited July 22, 2014 by GUARDLING

[chaos001]

Medal, yes (which I'm hoping for). Win, ehhhh. It's going to be tough getting past Cadets and BD. They have a bit more layering and complexity in their shows and are achieving it.

Edited July 22, 2014 by chaos001

[quietcity]

I just went back and listened to each the original and Bluecoats treatment, it's pretty much an exact transcription to the drum corps idiom, beginning to end with a few minor subtle changes, but it's definitely not just the melody. To me that is the most true to the original piece on the field this year, but maybe that's just me.

You make a good point, that BC is largely true and respectful to the source material, more so than many corps out there. As I noted, BC did a great job on Uffe's Woodshop. But Hymn, without the computer-augmented vocalizations, is just a rather simple pretty melody.

But this is not really the point I am making here. My point is that BC's music, regardless of authenticity, is just not as emotive, as nuanced, as communicative as music used by other top corps. I am not faulting this, it is simply an issue of style and taste. Consider it akin to Roy Lichtenstein compared to Mark Rothko.