seen-it-all Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Even more appropriate thread now. Except the system isn't broken at all. It worked exactly as it was supposed to work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I reiterate my scoring system suggestion from my rant early in the season. 100 points per caption...a corps earns whatever score they earn (so a golden performance early on gets rewarded for it)...average the caption scores to get the final, A top tier caption performance should be rewarded for it, but punished because the corps goes on 2nd. If 84 drums had been scored like today, 27th's drums would not have come 2nd to BD's by 1/10th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I don't think anyone denies the performance level--it's insane. But when I see the show, I see a lot of visual sleight of hand that makes the show look more difficult than it really is. Bottom line--BD works the scoring sheet better than anyone. Fair enough, I can understand your point, though I don't neccessarily agree. But in any case, I do think you are correct about their understanding of the system, "working" the sheets - part of the genius, if you will, of their design team, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Fair enough, I can understand your point, though I don't neccessarily agree. But in any case, I do think you are correct about their understanding of the system, "working" the sheets - part of the genius, if you will, of their design team, yes? To take this a step further, I lot of critique of BD's high score is stuff like, "show is not as difficult" while still acknowledging BD is extremely high achieving performing. Here's the key, folks: the criteria on the sheets is not all about difficulty! The sheets are about effect, coordination, variety, etc. Demand comes into play, but it's by no means the end all/be all of criteria. Blue Devils rule the sheets because they rule coordination, effect, variety, while being extremely high-achieving performers AND achieving high degrees of difficulty. They might not have THE most difficult music or visual programs but they still have a high degree of difficulty ON TOP OF maximizing effect, variety, visual/music coordination, etc. They have it ALL, and achieve it all at a super high degree (I think with the exception of percussion, and even then by only missing out by tenths of a point, they are w/out a doubt cleaner than everyone else in every caption). If you stop thinking that hard design = DCI Champs, and remember that sheets list a myriad of OTHER criteria that BD does extremely well, it will be easier to 'accept' why BD is incredible this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I reiterate my scoring system suggestion from my rant early in the season. 100 points per caption...a corps earns whatever score they earn (so a golden performance early on gets rewarded for it)...average the caption scores to get the final, A top tier caption performance should be rewarded for it, but punished because the corps goes on 2nd. If 84 drums had been scored like today, 27th's drums would not have come 2nd to BD's by 1/10th. But remember that number range correlates with specific achievement verbiage. For example, if a corps ALWAYS performs with clarity of form, ALWAYS achieve with a variety of visual responsibilities, ALWAYS achieve a variety of simultaneous responsibilities in their overall environment, and ALWAYS achieve consistency and precision throughout full ensemble, then a judge has no choice but to give that corps a sub-caption score in the top 10% of the range. If Blue Knights nailed the average majority of their show 'always' then they HAVE to get in the 90's because of the verbiage on the sheets; and then from there it becomes a game of spreads + keeping everyone there and above within that scoring range. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 But remember that number range correlates with specific achievement verbiage. For example, if a corps ALWAYS performs with clarity of form, ALWAYS achieve with a variety of visual responsibilities, ALWAYS achieve a variety of simultaneous responsibilities in their overall environment, and ALWAYS achieve consistency and precision throughout full ensemble, then a judge has no choice but to give that corps a sub-caption score in the top 10% of the range. If Blue Knights nailed the average majority of their show 'always' then they HAVE to get in the 90's because of the verbiage on the sheets; and then from there it becomes a game of spreads + keeping everyone there and above within that scoring range. This is the thing that confuses me, because it seems that ranking is more important and if a corps is in Box 5, they could potentially get bumped down to Box 4 scoring even though they fit Box 5 criteria. That type of thing really galls me. Of course I don't care if there's a ties somewhere, so there's that too. Seems like we need a more granular judging system that maintains Rating as well as Ranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) This is the thing that confuses me, because it seems that ranking is more important and if a corps is in Box 5, they could potentially get bumped down to Box 4 scoring even though they fit Box 5 criteria. That type of thing really galls me. Of course I don't care if there's a ties somewhere, so there's that too. Seems like we need a more granular judging system that maintains Rating as well as Ranking. That's part of numbers management, called "box integrity". It's why you will never see the first corps on (or the first corps in a particular box) at the very bottom or very top of a box....room for others is always left. Coincidental, that's what leads to lower-level corps' number fluctuating so much from night to night. Edited August 10, 2014 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 That's part of numbers management, called "box integrity". It's why you will never see the first corps on (or the first corps in a particular box) at the very bottom or very top of a box....room for others is always left. Coincidental, that's what leads to lower-level corps' number fluctuating so much from night to night. Ok, thanks for the explanation. I'll look for a specific example next year and see if the Box Integrity holds or if a corps gets bumped down in the name of numbers management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Ok, thanks for the explanation. I'll look for a specific example next year and see if the Box Integrity holds or if a corps gets bumped down in the name of numbers management. Jeff Ream and I judge in the same band circuit, one that uses what are essentially the DCI sheets. We understand the philosophy and numbers management. Jeff also does the training session on numbers management too. We're both major recap nerds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superOOk Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Yep, from Disney and teaching Teal Sound (he was a consultant with us). Ralph is awesome, and a historian of the activity. Dude, you crack me up tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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