Phan_of_Drumming Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) That's not a valid point. When was the last time many coed corps were medalists or champions. The Gender of the members does not hinder the corps.Single gender corps automatically reject half of the available talent pool. I don't think it should be so easy to wave away that question.Not saying they should change their policy or that the corps isn't competitive exclusively because of that policy. But to completely ignore the challenges of fielding a full and competitive corps on half the available talent seems deliberately homer-ish to me. Edited June 28, 2015 by Phan_of_Drumming 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) That's not a valid point. When was the last time many coed corps were medalists or champions. The Gender of the members does not hinder the corps. I agree with you. Ironically, if ever there was a show that really needs a "guest female performer", it's this year. Can you imagine if they had a featured male performer playing Gene Kelly with a female partner playing the dancer of the moment? Rita Hayworth, Judy Garland, Mitzi Gaynor, Debbie Reynolds, and Cyd Charisse were all counted among Kelly's film partners. Pick one...or all of them (costume change, anyone?). Edited June 28, 2015 by Kamarag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 No no, my friend. I was talking about how the original poster considered so many years to be failures, and wished for the glory days. You are the one who started talking about degrees of success (twisting my words, oddly enough). I was simply answering your question through the frame of the original topic. Nope. You evaded my question. You didn't answer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) That's not a valid point. When was the last time many coed corps were medalists or champions. The Gender of the members does not hinder the corps.How many championship level corps are there that are no longer in that group? Not many, for sure, in in fact maybe not any that are still active except the only two that are the all male corps. Some of my all time favorite shows are the Cavalier gold medal shows, btw. Edited June 28, 2015 by MikeRapp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 When was the last time The Cavaliers were a medalist? It seems as if one of the biggest challenges of any corps is to start with a base of talent, expeirence and support that gives you a chance to compete with the top half of dci. When you start with half of the eligible population ineligible, that seems like a difficult if not impossible hurdle jump. Look at the Blue Stars, not far from Madison. 15 years ago would anyone have believed that they would be regularly garnering scores higher than the Scouts? To me, you have to ask whether their non gender specific application helps them compete. 2011... It's not like they're fighting to stay in finals like the Scouts. The lowest they've gone is 7th or 8th in 2012. Their years of succes in the 2000s show that being an all male corps has nothing to do with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad75 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) One of my brothers was at Drums On last night and had some interesting takeaways. First off, he feels that the Blue Coats (and the top 6 for that matter) are in an entirely different category as it pertains to their production(s) and what's taking place on the field regarding equipment, sound, staging, etc, etc. He told me that it's as if DCI needs to come up with 2 completely different categories in world class...Drum Corps, and then Uber Field Stage Production Super Corps. Or, the reasonably priced, most bang for your buck, run-of-the-mill classic drum corps, AND THEN, the super-rich, anything goes, for the rich and famous, craziest production on earth SUPER CORPS!...He concluded, Madison can't compete in the Uber Corps world. Furthermore, he shared with me that the word on the street is that the Scouts to a great degree have essentially become nothing more than a feeder corps for the upper echelon Uber Corps. The days of the long term member are apparently gone from the Scouts. If a guy can’t make it this year with the Super Corps, he comes and cuts his teeth with Madison...Then, it's on to greener pastures. If this is true, then Madison will never win the talent war. Furthermore, as Vince Ferrera points out, Madison has financial water pistols going up against battle ships in regards to finances...Always follow the money. I guess I'm feeling quite blessed to have marched when I did...Simpler times. Edited June 28, 2015 by Mad75 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 How many championship level corps are there that are no longer in that group? Not many, for sure, in in fact maybe not any that are still active except the only two that are the all male corps. Some of my all time favorite shows are the Cavalier gold medal shows, btw. At the same time, I'd be willing to bet the percentage is higher on coed corps no longer around. Does it limit talent by being all-male, sure, does that mean you can't find 150 guys that are talented, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vferrera Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Furthermore, he shared with me that the word on the street is that the Scouts to a great degree have essentially become nothing more than a feeder corps for the upper echelon Uber Corps. The days of the long term member are apparently gone from the Scouts. If a guy can’t make it this year with the Super Corps, he comes and cuts his teeth with Madison...Then, it's on to greener pastures. If this is true, then Madison will never win the talent war. Furthermore, as Vince Ferrara points out, Madison has financial water pistols going up against battle ships in regards to finances...Always follow the money. I guess I'm feeling quite blessed to have marched when I did...Simpler times. The lower tier corps have always been feeder corps for the top 4/5. When we marched in 1978, our lead sops came from Blue Knights, Troopers, etc. But you are correct about the different financial tiers. Scouts were always strapped for cash, but could still compete, even in gussied up janitor suits and concrete hats. DCI recognized financial disparity as a problem way back in the early 70s. The 128 member limit was one way they tried to level the playing field, and was instituted after 1975 in response to Madison having something like 135 members. In fact, the size limit was a concession to the CA corps so they could tour in 3 busses rather than 4. Every professional sports league recognizes that there are 2 factors essential for long-term success: rules that preserve the integrity of the game and spending limits. DCI has neither. They've chosen "evolution" over growth. A devil's bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 2011... It's not like they're fighting to stay in finals like the Scouts. The lowest they've gone is 7th or 8th in 2012. Their years of succes in the 2000s show that being an all male corps has nothing to do with it. Maybe it is just me, but it seems like the DCI of the last few years has very little in common with the DCI of the era The Cavaliers dominated. Please don't get me wrong, I think the traditions of the Scouts and Cavaliers are among the things that make DCI what it is. But it just seems like the Haves are getting bigger, better and farther ahead of the Have Nots, and when you start with half the eligible members not being eligible to even audition, I don't know how you can hope to compete at the Have level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Maybe it is just me, but it seems like the DCI of the last few years has very little in common with the DCI of the era The Cavaliers dominated. Please don't get me wrong, I think the traditions of the Scouts and Cavaliers are among the things that make DCI what it is. But it just seems like the Haves are getting bigger, better and farther ahead of the Have Nots, and when you start with half the eligible members not being eligible to even audition, I don't know how you can hope to compete at the Have level. Kinda always been like that. Although some might have a different view. It was easier for all to compete maybe but times have for sure changed and so has who the activity serves. Difference today is in many ways the members of today don t have a problem traveling way out of an area to become one of the haves. Not that you are doing this but some blame the haves for what the have not's dont have. IMO the have not's play a part in that role also. Not everyone is a victim by others hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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