xandandl Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 LOL, well in fact I AM in Indy but have chosen a lower section this year. The nosebleeds don't do it for me anymore. Not sure where we will sit tonight. But I will bring my usual anxious spirit. I forgot you were a drum guy. For a second I worried you were in the lower sections like those nine circles... (ha, ha) Enjoy the show. We up in 640 closer to the heavens hope our prayers get heard there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonwoody Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 We listened to the live audio feed from the sidelines (or whatever that was on Youtube) and Cadets sounded GREAT! Glad that was reflected in a VERY close 2nd place brass score. It's also surprising how the numbers work out to keep giving Cadets a win in Total Music -- they didn't win drums (DANG IT!) though. They'll have to have VERY strong semis and finals percussion runs to win the Sanford. Ott is oddly closer in reach. Can't say anything about visual, but I'm pleased the Guard was only down by 0.6 from first (and 0.4 from BD) -- good visual proficiency score but disappointed it wasn't closer to first (and 4th in visual analysis). The 4th in GE and Visual makes me think that as much as I love the black it was a mistake and wish they could change back for finals. They were having GE and visual issues before the change but they have cleaned so much I just wish they could admit a mistake and go back to maroon and white. Best show in years just sad they may not have a chance.These kids march their f-ing butts off and don't think they are getting the credit the deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maneuvah Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) The 4th in GE and Visual makes me think that as much as I love the black it was a mistake and wish they could change back for finals. They were having GE and visual issues before the change but they have cleaned so much I just wish they could admit a mistake and go back to maroon and white. Best show in years just sad they may not have a chance.These kids march their f-ing butts off and don't think they are getting the credit the deserve. It's not mainly a color issue, though the black actually does make it harder to see how amazingly well the corps marches, a demand that's probably twice that of other top 12 corps. The Cadets' GE issues are because the show design is incoherent and essentially meaningless. People - including judges - understand and relate to meaning, mostly from a narrative arc, opposition/contrast, and emotion. Pure abstraction, especially when it castrates the meaning from the music, results in incoherence and saps GE. And it results in a squandering of gold-medal talent. Again. Yet another year of what could have been. How did this mess start? With "10" itself. Dumbness snowballs. Then you get the truly dumb idea about the tenth element. Then you get a whole series of stupid and unnecessary groupthink decisions that torpedoed this show the second the design team settled on "10", rather than looked toward the meaning of the music for inspiration, or at least, for some kind of larger meaning that the music actually communicates. It's not just sad. It pisses me off. Does the design team consult anyone, ever, who's not part of the hive mind and/or dependent on YEA for their salary, before they announce a show concept and start the typical Cadets hype machine, blindly sprinting at 226 bpm toward a GE brick wall, like they've done most years recently? I can't think of another corps that has such a gap between talent on the field and inept - or at least confused - show design. It's the concepts that are the problem. Bad design concepts lead to bad design decisions and incoherence in general. However brilliant is Sacktig's drill, for example, doesn't conceal the incompetence and incoherence of the concept itself. No amount of brilliant - gold medal - playing and marching can cover incoherence and abstraction-for-abstraction's-sake. The MMs have just so consistently marched and played beyond the design potential of the shows most years in the last 15, Cadets fans get just enough greatness out of the corps to be complacent. That's also kind of sad. The Borg are so eager defend any and every decision made by the Queen of the Borg. And I could be called a Borg myself. He said with love and squalor. And then he turned away from the muddy blackout and inane counting and Borgy of "10" everywhere to marvel at the truly beautiful products of the design teams of SCV, Bluecoats, Crown, Devils, Blue Knights, and a few others who had show concepts, narrative arc, meaning, and profound emotion that pulled people in and brought tears to some eyes, including mine. The tears that come to my eyes regarding the Cadets' show are of frustration at the squandered talent when you are performing well above the show concept. The kids deserve better. The fans do too. But people at the top are too stubborn, too blinkered, too egotistical to see it. What a waste. Edited August 7, 2015 by Maneuvah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) My feelings aren't that strong but I agree with the substance about 90%. 10 is a dumb concept. Neon is idiotic. I do think they desperately need to get some new, outside the organization blood in show design. And a non-marching movement specialist while they're at it Edited August 7, 2015 by FTNK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) It's not mainly a color issue, though the black actually does make it harder to see how amazingly well the corps marches, a demand that's probably twice that of other top 12 corps. The Cadets' GE issues are because the show design is incoherent and essentially meaningless. People - including judges - understand and relate to meaning, mostly from a narrative arc, opposition/contrast, and emotion. Pure abstraction, especially when it castrates the meaning from the music, results in incoherence and saps GE. And it results in a squandering of gold-medal talent. Again. Yet another year of what could have been. How did this mess start? With "10" itself. Dumbness snowballs. Then you get the truly dumb idea about the tenth element. Then you get a whole series of stupid and unnecessary groupthink decisions that torpedoed this show the second the design team settled on "10", rather than looked toward the meaning of the music for inspiration, or at least, for some kind of larger meaning that the music actually communicates. It's not just sad. It pisses me off. Does the design team consult anyone, ever, who's not part of the hive mind and/or dependent on YEA for their salary, before they announce a show concept and start the typical Cadets hype machine, blindly sprinting at 226 bpm toward a GE brick wall, like they've done most years recently? I can't think of another corps that has such a gap between talent on the field and inept - or at least confused - show design. It's the concepts that are the problem. Bad design concepts lead to bad design decisions and incoherence in general. However brilliant is Sacktig's drill, for example, doesn't conceal the incompetence and incoherence of the concept itself. No amount of brilliant - gold medal - playing and marching can cover incoherence and abstraction-for-abstraction's-sake. The MMs have just so consistently marched and played beyond the design potential of the shows most years in the last 15, Cadets fans get just enough greatness out of the corps to be complacent. That's also kind of sad. The Borg are so eager defend any and every decision made by the Queen of the Borg. And I could be called a Borg myself. He said with love and squalor. And then he turned away from the muddy blackout and inane counting and Borgy of "10" everywhere to marvel at the truly beautiful products of the design teams of SCV, Bluecoats, Crown, Devils, Blue Knights, and a few others who had show concepts, narrative arc, meaning, and profound emotion that pulled people in and brought tears to some eyes, including mine. The tears that come to my eyes regarding the Cadets' show are of frustration at the squandered talent when you are performing well above the show concept. The kids deserve better. The fans do too. But people at the top are too stubborn, too blinkered, too egotistical to see it. What a waste. Here we go again! Who said a crowd can't follow abstraction?? Like seriously? Did you not watch Tilt last year? Kinetic Noise this year? A narrative arc is not necessary for a successful drum corps show. Especially not for a show that is the crowd favorite. Who cares about the darn meaning of the music? Drum corps is an artistic activity that takes many pieces of music and arranges them together to fit some sort of theme. Saying that only one artistic direction is allowed (taking the meaning of the music) is castrating the meaning of art. Your ranting isn't "just sad. It pisses me off" Do you ever look at the positives? The crowd is out of their seats at the end of this show, in awe of the technical brilliance of it all. They're sure as hell getting way more of a response than "Dada" did (and I say that as someone who loved 2012 BD). Where in the judging sheets does it say that a narrative arc, storyline, or opposition/contrast is necessary for high GE scores? Your rant is just another rant from another butthurt wanna-be designer who clearly was not able to get into the design team of a corps. Why else would you have spent your entire 2015 season whining about the 2015 Cadets instead of simply enjoying all the amazing talent and shows on the field this year? Why do you continue to believe that placement is the only thing that matters to the Cadets, a corps so steeped in success and history? "The tears that come to my eyes regarding" your ranting are of "frustration" at your narrow-mindedness when there is so much to enjoy. DCP deserves better. The Cadets do too. But people like you are too stubborn, too blinkered, too egotistical to see it. What a waste. Edited August 7, 2015 by Cappybara 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonwoody Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 It's not mainly a color issue, though the black actually does make it harder to see how amazingly well the corps marches, a demand that's probably twice that of other top 12 corps. The Cadets' GE issues are because the show design is incoherent and essentially meaningless. People - including judges - understand and relate to meaning, mostly from a narrative arc, opposition/contrast, and emotion. Pure abstraction, especially when it castrates the meaning from the music, results in incoherence and saps GE. And it results in a squandering of gold-medal talent. Again. Yet another year of what could have been. How did this mess start? With "10" itself. Dumbness snowballs. Then you get the truly dumb idea about the tenth element. Then you get a whole series of stupid and unnecessary groupthink decisions that torpedoed this show the second the design team settled on "10", rather than looked toward the meaning of the music for inspiration, or at least, for some kind of larger meaning that the music actually communicates. It's not just sad. It pisses me off. Does the design team consult anyone, ever, who's not part of the hive mind and/or dependent on YEA for their salary, before they announce a show concept and start the typical Cadets hype machine, blindly sprinting at 226 bpm toward a GE brick wall, like they've done most years recently? I can't think of another corps that has such a gap between talent on the field and inept - or at least confused - show design. It's the concepts that are the problem. Bad design concepts lead to bad design decisions and incoherence in general. However brilliant is Sacktig's drill, for example, doesn't conceal the incompetence and incoherence of the concept itself. No amount of brilliant - gold medal - playing and marching can cover incoherence and abstraction-for-abstraction's-sake. The MMs have just so consistently marched and played beyond the design potential of the shows most years in the last 15, Cadets fans get just enough greatness out of the corps to be complacent. That's also kind of sad. The Borg are so eager defend any and every decision made by the Queen of the Borg. And I could be called a Borg myself. He said with love and squalor. And then he turned away from the muddy blackout and inane counting and Borgy of "10" everywhere to marvel at the truly beautiful products of the design teams of SCV, Bluecoats, Crown, Devils, Blue Knights, and a few others who had show concepts, narrative arc, meaning, and profound emotion that pulled people in and brought tears to some eyes, including mine. The tears that come to my eyes regarding the Cadets' show are of frustration at the squandered talent when you are performing well above the show concept. The kids deserve better. The fans do too. But people at the top are too stubborn, too blinkered, too egotistical to see it. What a waste. Oh christ..you must be channel3's brother..sorry I brought it up. You must be one of those "experts" I talked about in my post earlier. We don't care what you think about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 But can we agree that the show design isn't as strong as it should be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonwoody Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 But can we agree that the show design isn't as strong as it should be? That is your or anyone else's opinion only. Most do not feel that way. I would never claim to know all the answers and neither should anyone else unless you have produced the amount of championship shows this staff at Cadets have. If you have not then we don't care what you think so just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 But can we agree that the show design isn't as strong as it should be? They're down from first place by a grand total 1.0 points. 0.3 of that can be attributed to their weakness in guard after losing a staff member early this season. Do you realize how minuscule that is in the grand scheme of things? Their design staff is doing a fine job and everyone is entertained as hell. They're doing their jobs quite well as far as I'm concerned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonwoody Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 My feelings aren't that strong but I agree with the substance about 90%. 10 is a dumb concept. Neon is idiotic. I do think they desperately need to get some new, outside the organization blood in show design. And a non-marching movement specialist while they're at it Glad we have heard form another of DCP's supposed "Experts". Go win a few championships and call us in like 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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