N.E. Brigand Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 That's assuming that you are prepared to assign equal weight and value to each lost Corps show. I'm not prepared to assign to others what the value is for them in terms of their financial loss. That's in their domain, not ours. Some apparently don't use the archives, so for them, the "$3.00" loss you have assigned to them, might actually be too high. Who knows? But what if somebody liked the North Star shows that were deleted (for just one example). How could you or anybody else assign their loss as "$3.00". ? You can't. Its not your call (nor mine or anyone else's, for that matter). Only they can assign what the value is of their loss with these deleted 600+ shows. That said, this is all water over the dam now, and time soon to see what FN has in store for 2015-2016. There are no "deleted 600+ shows". Fewer than 100 performances were deleted. All were Finalist performances from 1999 or earlier. More than 1,000 other performances remain on the Fan Network. And obviously it was necessary for me to make some arbitrary decisions in order to estimate the value of the lost material. It seemed like the more pragmatic way of approaching this discussion than throwing up my hands because it's all subjective--e.g., that some fans are entitled to a full $69.99 refund because all they care about is North Star's 1979 performance of "God Only Knows". After all, if this were a legal matter, eventually someone (judge, arbitrator, jury, etc.) would be making a value judgement for others. It would be their call. But it's not a legal matter. Any rebate would be merely a nice gesture on DCI's part: as previously discussed on these forums (both six months ago when this news originally broke, and just in the past couple pages of this thread), the Fan Network has never promised specific content. So contractually, they might as well respond: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) For the umpteenth time now.., everyone here on DCP has acknowledged ( or at least accepted the fact ) that DCI has acted lawfully in diminishing the archives to purchasers of FN. It is NOT the legal basis on this that has gotten people mad, frustrated, bewildered, etc. Its the manner that it was handled ( guess it needs repeating apparently over, and over again with a few DCP posters ) What still remains it appears is the residue of thought on here, that somehow there still remain on DCP , posters that still harbor the thought that DCI has not acted legally in what they did with purchasers of FN. I am hopeful however that before the new term begins in a few days, that the posters that might still believe that there are DCP 'ers on here that still believe that DCI did not act lawfully in diminishing these shows, will finally come to the understanding... at long last... that such sentiments totally receded here on DCP , and did so even before the ball in Times Square finished its full descent, over 16 weeks ago. Edited May 21, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeZ Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I do not think any business (non profit or for profit) intentionally would try to #### off it's fan base. I would imagine that if DCI had received 245,000 phone calls and emails after the removal of the shows from the Fan Network there would have been some sort of response on DCI's part. I would guess (but don't actually know) that they received somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-75 phone calls and emails about the removal of the shows. I am guessing that DCI does not view this as a "disaster". Again, I completely understand why folks would be upset, but I am guessing the folks that are really really angry are a HUGE minority. If the majority of Fan Network subscribers had complained directly to DCI, DCI would have done something. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I do not think any business (non profit or for profit) intentionally would try to #### off it's fan base. I would imagine that if DCI had received 245,000 phone calls and emails after the removal of the shows from the Fan Network there would have been some sort of response on DCI's part. I would guess (but don't actually know) that they received somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-75 phone calls and emails about the removal of the shows. I am guessing that DCI does not view this as a "disaster". Again, I completely understand why folks would be upset, but I am guessing the folks that are really really angry are a HUGE minority. If the majority of Fan Network subscribers had complained directly to DCI, DCI would have done something. Z You're probably right, Mike, but I would also venture that many fans have not yet discovered the diminished FN offerings because the season hasn't started yet. As more people "ramp up" for the Summer Music Games I suspect more complaints will flow in to DCI. That being said, I fully agree that DCI says the vast majority of FN subscriptions are for streaming content and only a small percentage of FN purchasers care about Legacy shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 For the umpteenth time now.., everyone here on DCP has acknowledged ( or at least accepted the fact ) that DCI has acted lawfully in diminishing the archives to purchasers of FN. It is NOT the legal basis on this that has gotten people mad, frustrated, bewildered, etc. Its the manner that it was handled ( guess it needs repeating apparently over, and over again with a few DCP posters ) What still remains it appears is the residue of thought on here, that somehow there still remain on DCP , posters that still harbor the thought that DCI has not acted legally in what they did with purchasers of FN. I am hopeful however that before the new term begins in a few days, that the posters that might still believe that there are DCP 'ers on here that still believe that DCI did not act lawfully in diminishing these shows, will finally come to the understanding... at long last... that such sentiments totally receded here on DCP , and did so even before the ball in Times Square finished its full descent, over 16 weeks ago. Is this a long and convoluted way of saying "Move along. Nothing to see (or complain about) here."? (BTW, use "who" when speaking about people and "that" when speaking about things. "People who..." and "Instruments that...") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Very interesting replies to my question about fan longevity - thanks. I guess my personal experience isn't much different: My neice marched in Surf's guard for 3 years, didn't march her last 2 years of eligibility to "intern" one summer and study abroad last summer. As far as I can tell, aside from keeping in touch with some of her Surf friends she has not had any real contact with drum corps since her last year marching. I've been dragging my own kids to shows most of their lives. Neither have shown any interest in marching or any real interest in the activity. The 22yo hasn't gone with us to Indy in a number of years - once he was old enough to stay at a friend's house or on his own the last few years and I expect the 13yo to do the same in a couple years. my little brother attended shows from birth....and by age 10, he was done. Came back a few times to see me, but that was almost 20 years ago and hasn't been back since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) (BTW, use "who" when speaking about people and "that" when speaking about things. "People who..." and "Instruments that...") Mom? Is that you? Edited May 22, 2015 by HockeyDad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Is this a long and convoluted way of saying "Move along. Nothing to see (or complain about) here."? 'Don't believe so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Mom? Is that you? Go to bed! And just WAIT until your father gets home! You are in such HUGE trouble! ~Betty Draper to daughter, Sally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) I do not think any business (non profit or for profit) intentionally would try to #### off it's fan base. I would imagine that if DCI had received 245,000 phone calls and emails after the removal of the shows from the Fan Network there would have been some sort of response on DCI's part. I would guess (but don't actually know) that they received somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-75 phone calls and emails about the removal of the shows. I am guessing that DCI does not view this as a "disaster". Again, I completely understand why folks would be upset, but I am guessing the folks that are really really angry are a HUGE minority. If the majority of Fan Network subscribers had complained directly to DCI, DCI would have done something. Z So the lesson here is...." we ( DCI ) can treat the FN customer shabbily in our dealings and communications with them, because afterall there arn't very many of them, and the ones we do have really don't seem to mind being treated shabbily, as most of 'em usually seem ok with whatever we decide to do ". I actually think now you just might have it narrowed it down precisely why FN subscribers were treated so shabbily in the communication process and how this was all handled. Most of the FN Subscribers would be are ok with being treated shabbily, the thinking went with DCI, and so.... they were. I suppose it does make sense. They do say that the squeeky wheel gets the most grease... and following along those same lines, that squeeky wheels that get no grease, left unattended, usually falls off eventually too. So you probably do make a good point on how DCI internally views their typical FN Subscribers today. Hard to disagree on this customer view that DCI probably has with their current remaining, very small, FN customer base. Edited May 22, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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