skevinp Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 to roll around on the field with their horns and then to run around? I can see that at any dog park I'm calling your bluff. I don't think there are that many dogs with horns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standrews Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 ####, Vanguard, now look what you started. http://www.desplainesvanguard.com/dpv_photo_gallery/view_picture.cfm?photo_id=193 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I'm calling your bluff. I don't think there are that many dogs with horns. My dog doesn't have a horn or roll around but does a mean split leap...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 ####, Vanguard, now look what you started. http://www.desplainesvanguard.com/dpv_photo_gallery/view_picture.cfm?photo_id=193 ahhh interesting..funny how we have selective memory sometimes...funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 One of my old marching instructors marched back in the late 50's and 60's. He hated what drum corps became in the 1970's and absolutely despised it in the 1980's. I can hear him now, complaining about adding dance to the color guard and how that started things rolling. And why the heck do we need TWO valves anyway?? His least favorite corps was the Bayonne Bridgemen. He cursed them for bastardizing the activity forever. All the buffoonery and theatrics. It was embarrassing, he said. It's DRUM CORPS, not Broadway! It was all so disrespectful to the military bearing that defined the activity, and now everyone's playing follow the leader. He was one of those guys who actually had one of those "Drum Corps is dead" t-shirts back in the early 70's and wore it proudly. I liked that guy but he was koo-koo bananas! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) For starters, discussion like this is needed. I welcome that initial post. I do think there is a lot of truth to it. Some of the changes we are seeing are well done, and in some cases, really cool. I do like some of the staging and electronic additions - when done right. I believe the activity was in need of some changes. I believe that some things will stick, some will fade away. How it should be scored is beyond me. I have my opinions but I doubt DCI cares. My personal dislikes in today's shows stem from the following: 1. Too much electronic bass at the wrong times 2. Unnecessary body movement (and yes, this includes rolling on the ground), or just plain BAD body movement that nobody can translate from the stands = dumb 3. Poorly constructed narration or too much narration 4. Singing can sometimes work (I like Troopers' and Boston's use this year), but often it just cheeses up the show 5. Too much scatter drill, usually filled with lots of body movement that ultimately leads to no emotional pull or highlighted effect on the show, mostly just chaos 6. An overabundance of mallets in the pit (since when were so many marimbas, vibes, and xylos needed for field music?) Having said that, there are many more things I find that I enjoy in today's shows. I am not in favor of going back to the 80s or 70s, but I do believe that effective drill writing is becoming a lost art because we have more toys, and also because staging has become a big deal. We (the activity) need to strike a balance. I see this as a period of experimentation for DCI and its' member corps. In the end I believe a lot will be learned. Very, very good post, jwillis. Unfortunately, even the "when it's done right" and "need to strike a balance" will only, in the end, depend upon the individual observer. What is "done right" for one most assuredly will find vociferous argumentation from another. And the degree to which a "balance" is ultimately achieved will lie as an undetermined variable from observer to observer as well. Heck...even the "Mona Lisa" has inspired a few who have said, I'm sure, "Beautiful, beautiful painting. But...did da Vinci need to be SO dark with it??" No matter what is done...to whatever liberal or conservative extreme...and to whatever level of accomplishment...there will always be those who will find it less than optimal. I have friends and colleagues who were totally unimpressed with Blue Devils 2014. Sadly, I choose not to fight with them. Most often, I just walk away shaking my head, muttering "I give up. I give up." EDIT: Please also allow me to say that it is only after I've walked away muttering those words, then the realization hits me that their words are, for them, legitimate. And it is not my place to treat them as being wrong, for my viewpoint is no more legitimate than their's. But this brings us back to last summer's constant source of bewilderment and half-supported ideas...the whole issue of "reality." And personally, I don't care to go through that exercise in useless discussion all over again. Edited June 27, 2015 by HornTeacher 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maneuvah Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 The below post is the best I've read this year, but a restatement of much of the criticism that the DCI, I mean WGI, people don't and won't hear. Body movement is ridiculous 90% of the time. I hate it. Anyone who wants to win must do it. Score sheets are dictating design. The running thing was first figured out by the Cavaliers. They figured out that they didn't need to play difficult music while marching. They split them up and made the show designs bipolar. Hard music = standstill. Hard drill = no music. Brilliant running around and they were rewarded for it. So everyone followed. Lowest common denominator. BD followed and introduced "staging", which is sleight-of-hand design, making things look difficult that just aren't. Crown brought BOA/WGI into the activity. Crown is the master of body movement. They win, people follow. Traditional drum corps design is like Picasso - a true master of his craft, highest demand, innovation everywhere. BOA/WGI design is like Andy Warhol - covering up his lack of mastery with abstraction and concept Real drum corps - Radiohead New drum corps - Justin Bieber I like innovation with increased demand, not sleight-of-hand. I like pushing the envelope on music and marching demand. That's why I watch sports. That's why I love great symphony orchestras. That's why I love art. When I see the Cadets doing Crown body movement, I want to have a bowel movement. From a fake Chinese rubber band As preseason optimism is replaced the cold slap of reality my feeling so far is that it is a down year for DCI. Shows and performances are not where they should be as there is a lot of slop on the fields. I’m looking at designers then staffs as the culprits. Oh, there are exceptions and to you, thank you. In a town full of rubber plans Corps are trying to build GE with the next new thing, the coolest prop, the grooviest sound effects, and the most ham-fisted vocals. With a few exceptions, only the judges and their own staff seem impressed with the results. Writing GE into the drill is a lost art, it’s been replaced by rolling around on the field. How many corps have their brass on the ground at some point in their show or even worse doing characterization? How is that innovative or even good design when they all do it? Does it fit every show? No, it’s another lazy design and ticking a judging box; it’s Fake Plastic GE But gravity always wins The marching basics have been neglected with regards to technique and drill. Everyone wants to be the Blue Devils but most can’t pull it off. Perhaps, a bit less body movement, velocity and characterization because those effects only work when the basic block is squared neatly. More time is clearly needed on the visual basics. A lot of people seem to think drum corps needs (insert own personal agenda with a good dose of hyperbole) to survive, it only needs to be good. She looks like the real thing. She tastes like the real thing. My fake plastic love Props, platforms and tarps. Your Arabian Phallus field-scape offered little more than a cheap joke, did Oprah like it? And I still can’t’ find the kitchen. How many paper planes is that? More fringe, more fabric? In my mind, they might look even worse with the banners. What’s the cost per point benefit ratio? But I can't help the feeling. I could blow through the ceiling. Perhaps it’s the new sheets and the vague GE 1 and GE 2 that has the designers lost. Or maybe it’s dancing Crown, skipping Dada-Fellini BD and B movie Regiment’s success that ruined you all but in your rush to jump the next band wagon ….it looks amateurish and is poorly preformed. You’ve put too much trust in an often failed, short-lived effect at the expensive of the biggest GE available to you, marching and playing well. You’d be mistaken to think it was another Old versus New, it’s good versus and bad and bad is winning. Designers and staff its time to look at yourselves It wears me out, it wears me out 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I'm calling your bluff. I don't think there are that many dogs with horns. Horny dogs...yes. Dogs with horns? As you point out....no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) The below post is the best I've read this year, but a restatement of much of the criticism that the DCI, I mean WGI, people don't and won't hear. Body movement is ridiculous 90% of the time. I hate it. Anyone who wants to win must do it. Score sheets are dictating design. The running thing was first figured out by the Cavaliers. They figured out that they didn't need to play difficult music while marching. They split them up and made the show designs bipolar. Hard music = standstill. Hard drill = no music. Brilliant running around and they were rewarded for it. So everyone followed. Lowest common denominator. BD followed and introduced "staging", which is sleight-of-hand design, making things look difficult that just aren't. Crown brought BOA/WGI into the activity. Crown is the master of body movement. They win, people follow. Traditional drum corps design is like Picasso - a true master of his craft, highest demand, innovation everywhere. BOA/WGI design is like Andy Warhol - covering up his lack of mastery with abstraction and concept Real drum corps - Radiohead New drum corps - Justin Bieber I like innovation with increased demand, not sleight-of-hand. I like pushing the envelope on music and marching demand. That's why I watch sports. That's why I love great symphony orchestras. That's why I love art. When I see the Cadets doing Crown body movement, I want to have a bowel movement. Face it...we have moved from Michelangelo, Renior, and da Vinci to Dadaism and Jackson Pollock. And all have their fans and admirers. Heck...the Arts have been filled with those who were underappreciated in their time, yet were considered to be Masters far after they were laid in the ground. The same thing happens in Drum and Bugle Corps. Life is only life...and there is hardly anything new in how we all perceive that life. For anything other to be the truth would be to consign the human race into a race exemplifying robotics. Edited June 27, 2015 by HornTeacher 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Face it...we have moved from Michelangelo, Renior, and da Vinci to Dadaism and Jackson Pollock. And all have their fans and admirers. In the end it's all art. In that respect, this activity hasn't changed at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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