Zeke Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 On a side note completely off subject. I am also confused about the visual analysis caption. Crown was scoring 1/2 in visual performance, GE and guard, but 4/5 in visual analysis. Does this mean that they are clean and effective with a good guard, but the design is off? I simply do not understand the differentiation. Great Question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbones7480 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 For sale: middle-aged finals guard judge who doesn't like homework. She is sure to ruin your day. Any bidders? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 On a side note completely off subject. I am also confused about the visual analysis caption. Crown was scoring 1/2 in visual performance, GE and guard, but 4/5 in visual analysis. Does this mean that they are clean and effective with a good guard, but the design is off? I simply do not understand the differentiation. Visual Analysis is the up-top, ensemble visual caption. VP looks at individual performances, same with guard. The VA judge is supposed to take in the entire visual product. That's why you can see discrepancies. A VP judge might miss someone being out of the form or off-step because of where they are currently sampling, but the VA judge has a much higher chance of catching bad forms and big errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I think you'd end up with results that all the corps feel better about because you'd get the bad apples out of the barrel. I think THAT should be goal. If you're going to have subjective judging, things will always be a little controversial. But the more you can do to make the system trusted by all, the better the results will be. And yeah -- i think having panels everyone feels confident in could very well produce different results. DCA gets input from the corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveKathyG Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 How many guard judges are there in a given season? Can't be many since there's only a few shows a night. What I would really love to see on dci.org is a search function on the scores page that allows you to pull up results over an entire season or multiple seasons by judge. Do judges really feel the weight of accountability? Maybe a little more transparency would be a good thing. I've also wondered why some of these people have been allowed to judge for decades. They're human. They are going to preference a certain style or approach. They're going to have better relationships with one corps than another. And the old idea that you can count on judges to be as fair and impartial as possible is frankly bunk in a community as small as this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barigirl78 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 How many guard judges are there in a given season? Can't be many since there's only a few shows a night. What I would really love to see on dci.org is a search function on the scores page that allows you to pull up results over an entire season or multiple seasons by judge. Do judges really feel the weight of accountability? Maybe a little more transparency would be a good thing. I've also wondered why some of these people have been allowed to judge for decades. They're human. They are going to preference a certain style or approach. They're going to have better relationships with one corps than another. And the old idea that you can count on judges to be as fair and impartial as possible is frankly bunk in a community as small as this one. I keep my own database. It's 97% complete for this past season and I count 24 different judges judging CG. The judge who did the category the most was Oliviero--6 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 DCA gets input from the corps So does DCI. There's a process in place for corps that think there's a conflict of interest, bias, or other issue with judges. If a judge really did demonstrate bias towards another corps, they wouldn't be judging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdaddy Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 What I would really love to see on dci.org is a search function on the scores page that allows you to pull up results over an entire season or multiple seasons by judge. Do judges really feel the weight of accountability? Maybe a little more transparency would be a good thing. This might help: http://www.frontensemble.com/Judge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flguardman Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I keep my own database. It's 97% complete for this past season and I count 24 different judges judging CG. The judge who did the category the most was Oliviero--6 times. I went through dci and counted 24 judges through the season with J Howell judging 6, Oliviero and M.Stone judged 5, Nguyen judged 4, 5 judges judged 3, while 15 judged only 1 or 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Fischer Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 The answer to your question can be found in examining who has the greatest influence over how judging criteria is created and applied. Right now, creative designers and corps executives that favor the style BD embraces hold sway over how the performances are adjudicated. This philosophy minimizes the "cost" of mistakes. It does this by 1) simply telling the judge a mistake should not be construed as a "tick", thus directly affecting score, and 2) giving greater reward value to individualized performance design. So, for example, the tight flag block or rifle work in close proximity is adjudicated to have less demand than what may be "easier" work but at a greater interval with random facing. To put this into context: BD won the guard caption at finals even though they had several drops. Their performance was adjudicated to be superior even though they may not have had as many "powerful" unison statements. Like it, or not, that's the current system. Personally, I don't have any problem with success. If BD keeps winning because they understand how to maximize their show based on the current judging philosophies, more power to them. I don't believe there's any "conspiracy", or "this judge has something against that corp" going on. If the goal is "winning", then organizations should adopt the design philosophies more similar to BD. For me, Crown, Coats, and SCV had the hottest shows. I also stood in front of Cadet's horn line for quarter finals warm up and about cried like a baby and crapped my pants, all at the same time! It's super cool when BD invites all the fans to sit inside their horn circle. All cool experiences. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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