A Final Word on the DCA Competition Problem (this year)

[drumlaw80]

Hello everyone. I’ve made my position crystal clear on the DCA competition problem, my blog has been officially designated a national security threat within DCA, and I probably won’t have anything further to add on this issue until the next DCA Ground Hog Day in September 2016.

But I want everyone to know one thing. I didn’t speak up to hurt or antagonize anybody.

I spoke up because if changes are not made soon, DCA will die.

I have spoken to many people over the last year who are not just “not” interested in going to DCA anymore, but who are no longer interested in performing at DCA, even if the trip is free. I’m not talking about people who show up anyway and complain – I’m talking about the people who checked out of DCA, from all over the country. Look around you - it's not about who is there. It's about who is not there. There are many of us.

I am speaking up in the hopes that change will come to the DCA judging system. If changes are made, DCA can become competitive and fun again, resulting in tremendous growth to all-age drum corps as DCA has in the years before and the very start of the Buccaneers competitive tirade. People will return if the playing field is level.

Look, nobody did anything wrong to cause this problem.

The DCA Board did nothing wrong. The DCA judges did nothing wrong. And the Reading Buccaneers did not do anything wrong. Point of fact, the Buccaneers created this existential problem in DCA because they did everything correct, doing whatever was needed to do to win in a flawed judging system that puts too much emphasis on demand, and ends up encouraging DCA corps to copy DCI to succeed, which will fail unless you can get a corps substantially comprised of 20-year olds. Which defeats the point of DCA.

The solution here is not to make the Reading Buccaneers lose. The solution is to give other DCA corps a reasonable chance to win DCA. Whether they do or not, is on them. But under the current status, most DCA corps will never win DCA again. Not because I said so, based upon the historical record, and what is happening to the fan base and corps.

I hope big changes are made to the DCA judging system, and I hope they are made soon. For the sake of DCA.

7

Lee Rudnicki

Edited September 16, 2015 by drumlaw80

[GUARDLING]

Hello everyone. I’ve made my position crystal clear on the DCA competition problem, my blog has been officially designated a national security threat within DCA, and I probably won’t have anything further to add on this issue until the next DCA Ground Hog Day in September 2016.

But I want everyone to know one thing. I didn’t speak up to hurt or antagonize anybody.

I spoke up because if changes are not made soon, DCA will die.

I have spoken to many people over the last year who are not just “not” interested in going to DCA anymore, but who are no longer interested in performing at DCA, even if the trip is free. I’m not talking about people who show up anyway and complain – I’m talking about the people who checked out of DCA, from all over the country. Look around you - it's not about who is there. It's about who is not there. There are many of us.

I am speaking up in the hopes that change will come to the DCA judging system. If changes are made, DCA can become competitive and fun again, resulting in tremendous growth to all-age drum corps as DCA has in the years before and the very start of the Buccaneers competitive tirade. People will return if the playing field is level.

Look, nobody did anything wrong to cause this problem.

The DCA Board did nothing wrong. The DCA judges did nothing wrong. And the Reading Buccaneers did not do anything wrong. Point of fact, the Buccaneers created this existential problem in DCA because they did everything correct, doing whatever was needed to do to win in a flawed judging system that puts too much emphasis on demand, and ends up encouraging DCA corps to copy DCI to succeed, which will fail unless you can get a corps substantially comprised of 20-year olds. Which defeats the point of DCA.

The solution here is not to make the Reading Buccaneers lose. The solution is to give other DCA corps a reasonable chance to win DCA. Whether they do or not, is on them. But under the current status, most DCA corps will never win DCA again. Not because I said so, based upon the historical record, and what is happening to the fan base and corps.

I hope big changes are made to the DCA judging system, and I hope they are made soon. For the sake of DCA.

7

Lee Rudnicki

Again, Youre answer is?

remove a corps after winning a year? Hide the sheets from a winner,lol ? As I said in your other thread. WINNERS just know how to win no matter what the changes are.

You say you want others to have a chance to win. AHHH in the past didn't corps , including the Bucs just had to get better. Does DCA have a problem, YEP competition? Nope

Edited September 16, 2015 by GUARDLING

[Fran Haring]

Well said, Lee... whether we agree or disagree.

I'll wade in here a bit... then go away. My kitty Bogie is sitting here demanding his dinner. Priorities. LOL.

I don't think the Buccaneers winning for so many years is a direct cause of declining attendance at DCA's championship event.... not at all. Like another poster mentioned in another thread... there are other issues in play here. If the "Bucs winning all the time" thing was the case, then attendance at the 2014 championship should have been way higher than it was... because it was an exciting horse race to the finish that year. The Bucs were beatable (for lack of a better term) and by no means a stone lock to win the title in '14.

And I'm not sure it's the current judging system itself that places too much emphasis on demand... in particular, visual demand. Someone with a lot more knowledge of that system can come in here and talk more about this, I'm sure.

I think, perhaps, it is more of an issue of corps staffs placing that emphasis. Maybe it's a direct effort on their part to emulate the DCI corps... maybe it's just because, for all intents and purposes, the DCI (and, to some extent, the WGI) model is driving the bus when it comes to the rules of the game for all competitive drum corps, at all levels, and that is just the way things are right now. I don't know for sure. I don't know a lot of things about a lot of things.

However.... there's always a however, isn't there? LOL...

I've said for years that, unless someone invents a seven-day weekend, all-age corps, by their very "weekend-only" nature, will never be able to directly compare/compete with DCI corps... in particular the top-level DCI corps... in terms of overall achievement/execution/performance of the product, especially on the visual front.

So... again, my opinion only.... perhaps the product, in order to survive/thrive, needs to be different, on at least some level, or levels.

In the long run, a weekend-only version of DCI will be just that... a second-tier option to the "big time" DCI corps. Not sure that is going to attract a lot of paying customers from the DCI side of life, who might rather spend their money to see the DCI-style product at its absolute highest level. NO KNOCK on the all-age corps, who do a great job within their time constraints ... but just a fact of life here. And I hope I'm wrong about the whole "paying to see the product" thing I just laid out.

So possibly, the overall all-age product needs to be fundamentally different, when it comes to the sheer amount of "stuff" an all-age corps, on average, can handle and still put out a product that, again overall, not only looks and sounds great/is marketable to any audience (and I agree that DCA does need to "get younger" in that regard) on Labor Day weekend, but also in mid-June through mid-August.

How will that happen, if it happens at all? I have no firm idea. Heck, I have no firm idea what I'll be having for breakfast tomorrow. LOL.

And now, back to our regularly-scheduled thread, and for me, back to real life.. which, first things first, involves feeding Bogie.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Fran Haring

[MikeN]

Excuse me for offering some "general" observations, but I just don't know enough about DCA to get too specific. That said -

There appears from afar to be two issues. First is the perception of DCA as "DCI-lite," and second is the actual structure/governance of DCA.

From what's been reported, the age of marchers in DCA groups has been steadily dropping. That's good! Younger members = longer members. Nothing wrong with that. I would, however, much rather see DCA corps playing to their strengths, and that really is the fact that you have amazing musicians that have been doing their thing for far longer than the DCI kids. DCI trumps DCA on pure athletic ability, and that's to be expected - these are kids who do it every day. (I'm not tarring every corps with the same brush here - it's just the general trend.) But DCA really could trump even DCI on the music side of the equation, especially if the DCI "how many tempos/transitions can we fit into 11 minutes" is relaxed. Anyways, like I said, I'm speaking to the general drift here.

Second, DCA is the only all-age corps game in town, but they are so geographically restricted that by structure alone it cuts off a huge number of former MM's. I get it - DCA The Circuit is not a full time operation. But it's probably time to have the discussion - maybe they should be. For all the Renegades brought to DCA, the most important was probably tapping into a massive pool of corps alumni in California, which you may have noticed is riddled with junior corps, churning out former members every single year. Maybe DCA should be networking like crazy, looking for the next Lee Rudnicki (Renegades) or Chris Green (Carolina Gold, Frontier) to strategically assist getting Western corps off the ground. With enough corps at some point, maybe even create a DCA Western Championship that runs the same weekend. So what if you get two national champions? You save corps cross-country travel costs in the short run that will help them develop in the long run.

Or maybe, if we go full "free market" here for a bit, those western powers-that-be ought to consider their own circuit with their own champion. Healthy competition might bring out the best in everyone.

Anyways, sorry for the parachute-in comments. Just some general thoughts from halfway to either coast...

Mike

[Kamarag]

The important thing is that Lee identified a growing problem. Sure, he might believe the cause is something different from what others believe, but he's still identifying an issue and fostering discussion. I think it's unfortunate that so many folks decided to kill the messenger and not the message, but I'm not surprised.

DCA does have problems. Maybe they are Bucs' fault, but most likely they aren't. They are still major problems.

I do believe that fostering a competitive environment is essential, and an important part of DCA's long term health, but it has to be done without handicapping one particular corps.

[GUARDLING]

The important thing is that Lee identified a growing problem. Sure, he might believe the cause is something different from what others believe, but he's still identifying an issue and fostering discussion. I think it's unfortunate that so many folks decided to kill the messenger and not the message, but I'm not surprised.

DCA does have problems. Maybe they are Bucs' fault, but most likely they aren't. They are still major problems.

I do believe that fostering a competitive environment is essential, and an important part of DCA's long term health, but it has to be done without handicapping one particular corps.

Problem with dca ..sure i can buy that. with competition? I dont think so...Ive said in in the dCI thread as well as here. Change whatever you want. winners just know how to win.His view was quite strong and although he back peddled from one thread to another a bit and of course is entitled to an opinion he offers no solutions and doesnt respond when someone ask's a question.

Personally I think the bigger issue with DCA today, in 2015 is that it is still for the most part run like it was 1970. YES DCA is a part time weekend only drum corps activity BUT that alone has to compete with the fact it is 2015. Nothing is the same. I think DCA from at least an admin. stand point has to start thinking out of the box and run it like a business to survive. find ways of generating more attendance and money all year. enough to hire the proper people.

Most part time, hobby type things are all but gone in the world. maybe it's time to enter this century.

[Jeff Ream]

Hello everyone. I’ve made my position crystal clear on the DCA competition problem, my blog has been officially designated a national security threat within DCA, and I probably won’t have anything further to add on this issue until the next DCA Ground Hog Day in September 2016.

But I want everyone to know one thing. I didn’t speak up to hurt or antagonize anybody.

I spoke up because if changes are not made soon, DCA will die.

I have spoken to many people over the last year who are not just “not” interested in going to DCA anymore, but who are no longer interested in performing at DCA, even if the trip is free. I’m not talking about people who show up anyway and complain – I’m talking about the people who checked out of DCA, from all over the country. Look around you - it's not about who is there. It's about who is not there. There are many of us.

I am speaking up in the hopes that change will come to the DCA judging system. If changes are made, DCA can become competitive and fun again, resulting in tremendous growth to all-age drum corps as DCA has in the years before and the very start of the Buccaneers competitive tirade. People will return if the playing field is level.

Look, nobody did anything wrong to cause this problem.

The DCA Board did nothing wrong. The DCA judges did nothing wrong. And the Reading Buccaneers did not do anything wrong. Point of fact, the Buccaneers created this existential problem in DCA because they did everything correct, doing whatever was needed to do to win in a flawed judging system that puts too much emphasis on demand, and ends up encouraging DCA corps to copy DCI to succeed, which will fail unless you can get a corps substantially comprised of 20-year olds. Which defeats the point of DCA.

The solution here is not to make the Reading Buccaneers lose. The solution is to give other DCA corps a reasonable chance to win DCA. Whether they do or not, is on them. But under the current status, most DCA corps will never win DCA again. Not because I said so, based upon the historical record, and what is happening to the fan base and corps.

I hope big changes are made to the DCA judging system, and I hope they are made soon. For the sake of DCA.

7

Lee Rudnicki

so in your eyes, despite the many other valid things people mention that could help DCA grow, it all comes down to Bucs tanking.

let me ask you something Lee...

on the DCI side, BD has won 6 of the last 9, and been #### close the other 3 years. Yet their attendance has show increases, even if fans are getting tired of Indy. So obviously competition isn't driving that bus, as last year, BD was pretty much assured of the win in May, yet attendance went up.

why is that?

[cixelsyd]

And I'm not sure it's the current judging system itself that places too much emphasis on demand... in particular, visual demand. Someone with a lot more knowledge of that system can come in here and talk more about this, I'm sure.

I think, perhaps, it is more of an issue of corps staffs placing that emphasis. Maybe it's a direct effort on their part to emulate the DCI corps... maybe it's just because, for all intents and purposes, the DCI (and, to some extent, the WGI) model is driving the bus when it comes to the rules of the game for all competitive drum corps, at all levels, and that is just the way things are right now. I don't know for sure. I don't know a lot of things about a lot of things.

However.... there's always a however, isn't there? LOL...

I've said for years that, unless someone invents a seven-day weekend, all-age corps, by their very "weekend-only" nature, will never be able to directly compare/compete with DCI corps... in particular the top-level DCI corps... in terms of overall achievement/execution/performance of the product, especially on the visual front.

Excellent points. I agree. Even most open class DCI corps now have an advantage in rehearsal time which enables them to tackle more demanding visual shows.

So... again, my opinion only.... perhaps the product, in order to survive/thrive, needs to be different, on at least some level, or levels.

In the long run, a weekend-only version of DCI will be just that... a second-tier option to the "big time" DCI corps. Not sure that is going to attract a lot of paying customers from the DCI side of life, who might rather spend their money to see the DCI-style product at its absolute highest level. NO KNOCK on the all-age corps, who do a great job within their time constraints ... but just a fact of life here. And I hope I'm wrong about the whole "paying to see the product" thing I just laid out.

So possibly, the overall all-age product needs to be fundamentally different, when it comes to the sheer amount of "stuff" an all-age corps, on average, can handle and still put out a product that, again overall, not only looks and sounds great/is marketable to any audience (and I agree that DCA does need to "get younger" in that regard) on Labor Day weekend, but also in mid-June through mid-August.

Yes, this is one possible path forward. Weekend only corps need to choose their challenges carefully. They also need to consider how to ramp up demand over the course of the season so that the corps does challenging things in September, but is still presentable in July. Thanks for recognizing that.

However, I doubt DCA will make their product different from DCI. They have had many opportunities to differentiate themselves over the years, but they have chosen to follow DCI in everything from drill demand to amplification/electronics. Given all that, I think we would be more likely to see DCA corps evolve beyond the weekend-only mode, rather than backpedal in design or equipment.

[cixelsyd]

Second, DCA is the only all-age corps game in town, but they are so geographically restricted that by structure alone it cuts off a huge number of former MM's. I get it - DCA The Circuit is not a full time operation. But it's probably time to have the discussion - maybe they should be. For all the Renegades brought to DCA, the most important was probably tapping into a massive pool of corps alumni in California, which you may have noticed is riddled with junior corps, churning out former members every single year. Maybe DCA should be networking like crazy, looking for the next Lee Rudnicki (Renegades) or Chris Green (Carolina Gold, Frontier) to strategically assist getting Western corps off the ground. With enough corps at some point, maybe even create a DCA Western Championship that runs the same weekend. So what if you get two national champions? You save corps cross-country travel costs in the short run that will help them develop in the long run.

Or maybe, if we go full "free market" here for a bit, those western powers-that-be ought to consider their own circuit with their own champion. Healthy competition might bring out the best in everyone.

Thank you for thinking outside the box.

It does seem as if the plan for growing DCA was merely to take the growth that occurred organically outside the Northeast, and talk all those corps into making annual Labor Day weekend trips to championships. This plan was flawed, as the challenges of time and funding for those trips, combined with the inherent competitive disadvantages these "away teams" face, have not created positive and sustainable experiences for the majority of those corps.

A weekend only activity needs a strong regional focus to be practical. Not long ago, we had all-age corps in California, Washington, Colorado and Texas. Now, the only such corps west of the Mississippi River are the trio in Minnesota who have the ability to put events together locally. I think there is something to be learned from that.

[Gary Matczak]

actually, I have shared a few adult beverages with Lee over the years, and while I find his lawyerly approach to stimulating conversation targeted and somewhat purposeful,...........continuing the conversation on his part could really help his positions,.........he knows that, and my guess is that he finds enjoyment is making rash statements, then staying silent on these and similar boards to see what comes of it,............all in all, a good dude!