Jeff Ream Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I don't know what rules DCI has in place for judges, as far as discussiuon of what they heard/saw goes, but I can give you a little insight into how it may go down in the band world. Jeff Ream and I judged in the same circuit, and often judged on the same panel. After the show, we'll usually discuss what we saw and heard, mostly content and performence. Jeff might point something out that I may have missed, or vice verdsa. Along the lines of... Jeff: "Man, did you catch when Band X did [whatever]?" Me: "No, I was sampling something else...but I'll be sire to check that out the next time I see them. Did you happen to catch Band Z's [whatever]?" Jeff: "Yea, that was really well done." Now, Jeff is a great judge and I respect what he has to say (even when we might not necessarily agree). We don't generally talk numbers, mostly because there's no reason to. But to be perfectly honest (and since I'm not juding there anymore) there are judges I won't discuss anything with, and who's numbers I absolutely consider suspect. When you judge in a circuit with 200+ bands, and only do one show a week, it's not unreasonable at all to look at previous recaps. I generally don't, for several reasons (unless Im referencing my own numbers from a previous show). Not counting a show where my own band perfromed, the only reason I've done a recap analysis of a show I didn't judge was because I was asked to look at something specific and make a "scoring correction" if I felt it was warrrented. I do know a lot of judges that do look at recaps, but that's on them. Then again, maybe all of this falls under "how the sausage gets made". perfect example of this: i judged a team on a saturday night this year. saw them the next day. because of that, i didn't look at what I did the night before, and was too fried to memorize ( I did 22 bands over 6 classes). I did remember aspects of the performance and suggestions I made, one fixable overnight ( turn up the vocalists volume) some not. When I saw the quick fixes they made that took the performance, IMO, to the next level, I popped them a number. it wasn't until after the show I saw how much the number went up! Wow. But the caption head listened to both tapes, and based on the commentary from saturday to sunday, he got why i did what I did. and had i judged that band at finas, i'd have been hard pressed not to 10/10 them...and they didn't go on last! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 One has to wonder, with the world very different ( internet, etc etc, instant information) have we got to a point that the transparency and demand of information that at one time was much more guarded ,have we got ourselves in much more trouble sharing every bit of information ( no I'm not just talking drum corps ) Many I know do not want to look at the 2 sides to this equation BUT there are for sure 2 sides. Just a thought. Many good reasons for sure wanting it all out there( as you mentioned ) and many good reasons for the opposite I suppose. we used to get recaps, we just had to wait for DCN/DCW to arrive in our mailbox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I get that. However the sports analogy and stats really doesn't apply - these are subjective opinions. not yards per carry I'd best most of us who do follow scores (I'm one of them) will still survive without the details DURING the season I'm hopeful this will create more of a blank slate for the judges - and that will end up beneficial As always, time will tell. If it's a disaster they could change it back, or even change their minds mid season I personally think the new approach is an improvement, George. it may be subjective, like figure skating scoring, but it's the only stats we can get night to night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I'm older and don't hear, nor read that well, but after studying this issue at length this week, DCI caption judges, especially the older ones, should not have to reveal their sores, nor kneecaps, to the public, imo. Even after the season is over. Edited February 9, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 it may be subjective, like figure skating scoring, but it's the only stats we can get night to night. it's not about us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) it's not about us Um, well, yes it is until either A) drum corps are fully funded by sponsors B) Marching members are asked to pay the full cost of touring C) Some combination of the above Until then ticket sales and media sales, not to mention fan involvement, account for a significant portion of each corps' annual income. The whole notion of corps and DCI making decisions in the vacuum of not caring about fans seems misplaced in an activity that struggles financially each year. Edited February 9, 2016 by garfield 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 actually early on they were amazing. then everyone caught up and passed them byOk. I value your opinion because I know you judge bands so your perspective is better than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashyUechi Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Um, well, yes it is until either A) drum corps are fully funded by sponsors B) Marching members are asked to pay the full cost of touring C) Some combination of the above Until then ticket sales and media sales, not to mention fan involvement, account for a significant portion of each corps' annual income. The whole notion of corps and DCI making decisions in the vacuum of not caring about fans seems misplaced in an activity that struggles financially each year. The majority of fans at DCI are parents and family of the kids performing. Every three years there's a turn over in the audience as there is in corps membership. The hard core drum corps fan isn't making up the majority of tickets sales as you may think. The recaps isn't about us. We will still see who won the larger captions. The staff will see the detailed recaps at shows but not be allowed a hard copy. I bet you'll still enjoy the season! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The majority of fans at DCI are parents and family of the kids performing. Every three years there's a turn over in the audience as there is in corps membership. The hard core drum corps fan isn't making up the majority of tickets sales as you may think. The recaps isn't about us. We will still see who won the larger captions. The staff will see the detailed recaps at shows but not be allowed a hard copy. I bet you'll still enjoy the season! Good point and if it makes judges feel they are more independent and it minimizes the herd mentality, then I'm ok with it.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Um, well, yes it is until either A) drum corps are fully funded by sponsors B) Marching members are asked to pay the full cost of touring C) Some combination of the above Until then ticket sales and media sales, not to mention fan involvement, account for a significant portion of each corps' annual income. The whole notion of corps and DCI making decisions in the vacuum of not caring about fans seems misplaced in an activity that struggles financially each year. I never said it wasn't about us AT ALL Most fans don't closely follow detailed recaps Let's say 500 do. (probably generous) It's not about THAT group of "us" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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