No Detailed Recaps

[cixelsyd]

To George Dixon - not sure I agree with your demographic statistics, but I do agree with your opening sentiment. Delaying publication of recaps is not as big a deal as this thread may make it appear.

To GUARDLING - sure, fans have no vote in the decision making process. DCI can vote themselves into extinction if they choose. However, you are correct that fans are taken into account. "Audience impact" is one of the categories on the rule change form.

To garfield - no doubt that fans matter. But in this case, there are pros and cons. While some fans would rather see recaps right away, I think some fans would like to see a season of judging free from the inertial effects of published recaps. Just because DCI did not mention fans in their two sentences on the topic, does not indicate that fans were not prominent in the minds of the decision makers.

[BRASSO]

. Just because DCI did not mention fans in their two sentences on the topic, does not indicate that fans were not prominent in the minds of the decision makers.

Sure it does.

The decision was made exclusively in regards to judging. Judges were specifically mentioned as its impetus for this. This new rule adoption has nothing at all to do with " the fans ". Whenever DCI enacts something new that is fan related, to their credit, they say so. The absence of the word " fans " in the press release, tells us in no uncertain terms thhat this new judging rule in regards to show recaps was put in place for the judging community ( and secondarily, the Corps community ) but not for the fanbase community.

Edited February 10, 2016 by BRASSO

[perc2100]

I see your point. But we're talking about individual scoring here. It's the individual scores that equal the overall caption scores - which, in turn, equal the overall score. Since scores do matter, and a component of the overall show experience for fans and performers alike, it's a hard arugument to suggest that a piece of the scoring be withheld. It's not like we're talking about the judge's tapes.

I say this, however, in favor of withholding recaps. It's obvious by the voting membership of DCI that by withholding recaps the scoring results will benefit from the change. And, keep in mind, they'll try it for a year. If it does not have the impact desired, I'm sure they'd consider changing it again.

And, transparency or not, we'll all be able to judge the results.

Maybe it's obvious DCI Directors THINK it will benefit scoring; I don't think there are any obvious benefits related to scoring other than perception of improvement (which might be good enough for the Directors/member corps)

[perc2100]

oh I totally understand and agree . There's just another part of this. We have become a society that's involved in every aspect of practically everything. At one time spectators ( although some more educated than others ) were just that , spectators. Now everyone wants to be a part of it all. Has that taken away from the enjoyment of the entertainment experience or added to it. I know many who feel both ways on this.

Either way you are right although withholding does not mean a judge couldnt find out easily, like they do now.

You are also right with a test for everyone IF it works, helps or won't matter to the masses in the long run.

You know, this was my first thought, but I remember ALWAYS have recaps in Drum Corps World. Not immediately, but certainly during the season a week or two later. I could track during the seasons how my favorite corps & their closest competitors were doing in, say, percussion (since I'm a drummer), or see where corps' strengths/weaknesses are & how corps make a serge (or stagnate) in those captions throughout the summer.

It's not just living in the instant information age in this case, though I suspect that could plausibly be part of it

[perc2100]

I get that.

However the sports analogy and stats really doesn't apply - these are subjective opinions. not yards per carry

I'd best most of us who do follow scores (I'm one of them) will still survive without the details DURING the season

I'm hopeful this will create more of a blank slate for the judges - and that will end up beneficial

As always, time will tell. If it's a disaster they could change it back, or even change their minds mid season

I personally think the new approach is an improvement,

George.

Can you explain HOW it think it might create a "blank slate?" Is it your perception that the majority of judges pour over other judges' caption scores and emulate what other judges write down?

Not picking fights, legitimately curious. A lot of people seem to be excited for very broad/vague reasons and I'm trying to get an idea of what people plausibly think this will change in respect to what they think routinely happens with judges ranking/rating corps

[perc2100]

I thought we saw that more last year than we have in the last 40

Yeah that's one thing that seems kid of confounding to me. Several seasons lately it seems like going into Finals week we legitimately didn't know who would definitely come out on top, with last year's season seeming to be more of a "mystery" than most years I can think of. It's weird that Directors made such a strong/united move to maybe attempt to change judging (though, it could very well be a matter of "dammmit BD snuck in an won again, and it was clearly due to slotting or...something not related to performance I guess. How can we keep BD from doing this again/winning less without radically changing sheets or, you know, fielding an amazing drum corps product."

[GUARDLING]

Yeah that's one thing that seems kid of confounding to me. Several seasons lately it seems like going into Finals week we legitimately didn't know who would definitely come out on top, with last year's season seeming to be more of a "mystery" than most years I can think of. It's weird that Directors made such a strong/united move to maybe attempt to change judging (though, it could very well be a matter of "dammmit BD snuck in an won again, and it was clearly due to slotting or...something not related to performance I guess. How can we keep BD from doing this again/winning less without radically changing sheets or, you know, fielding an amazing drum corps product."

I dont think there's a director out there that doesn't get that no matter what the sheets are BD will still be a contender. I know you know it's about quality and just knowing how to be successful not matter how rules change.

I think if any director believes changing a sheet will change their success just doesn't get it at all ( Unless DCI hides the sheet change from BD...lol )

Edited February 10, 2016 by GUARDLING

[GUARDLING]

You know, this was my first thought, but I remember ALWAYS have recaps in Drum Corps World. Not immediately, but certainly during the season a week or two later. I could track during the seasons how my favorite corps & their closest competitors were doing in, say, percussion (since I'm a drummer), or see where corps' strengths/weaknesses are & how corps make a serge (or stagnate) in those captions throughout the summer.

It's not just living in the instant information age in this case, though I suspect that could plausibly be part of it

I think many didnt even subscribe to DCW . You could be right though

Edited February 10, 2016 by GUARDLING

[perc2100]

"Point is - while FANS are extremely critical to a "performance activity" - we may not be as important as some would think. Particularly the segment of legacy fans which checks ordinals during the season. We probably # in the hundreds. "

Looking at DCI site: 400,000 attend events. I'd guess more check recaps than you considered.

3,500 performers in "top tier corps" 5000 all told [DCI's description], of which 60% are college music majors. IMO a high percentage of those individuals read recaps.

Over 25,000 high school students attended at least one of the 10 major events in 2007. IMO a good percentage of those were interested music students who read recaps.

Consequently, IMO those student's instructors embrace a similar level of interest reading recaps.

I also believe a high percentage of high school instructors that have alumni marching summer DCI have interest in reading recaps.

60,000 attend World Championship events. IMO a substantial number read recaps.

Let's consider all FMM & die hard fans as well. [DCI refers to them as Deadheads & Red Sox Nation]

I disagree about your "in the hundreds" estimation. I just have to believe in this day of technology/information that the number is greater given the information provided by DCI/others.

http://www.dci.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=33500&ATCLID=209979117&DB_OEM_ID=33500

I suspect this is true, especially performing captions like Percussion or Brass or Guard. I personally love to track how my students do recap wise: how are they doing in their specific performance caption, where are they excelling (it's fun when, say, a student is in Pacific Crest and maybe they're not getting the overall love they're hoping for, but I can say something like "the judges seem to love your visual program at least" to help bring them up).

This is good analysis, thanks for posting!

[drumcorpsfever]

60,000 attend World Championship events. IMO a substantial number read recaps.

Not only do a substantial number read the recaps, EACH fan in attendance has EASY ACCESS to the recaps because DCI prints the recaps in the Friday and Saturday Contest Program during championship week in Indy.

I say "bull" that fans don't care about the recaps. DCI knows fans DO care about them and are interested in knowing the results. If they didn't, DCI wouldn't PRINT the recaps in the Contest Program.