BRASSO Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) That's kind of the *point* of a boycott - cancelling shows hurts local revenue which causes pressure up the chain to change their stance. From the NFL to Disney to Bruce Springsteen, it's all about using the threat of money to enact reform. Speaking of Bruce Springsteen, by the way, Bruce Burgard, a supporter of the boycott of North Carolina, and initiator of a petition in support of a request to Springsteen to cancel his upcoming concert in Greensboro, N.C. ( " The Boss " subsequently did ) had this to say to gathered reporters yesterday regarding Springsteen's decision to cancel his show there : ( quote ) " Mr. Springsteen, like every business person, is entitled to the right to deny services where and when it violates their beliefs ". Oh the irony, huh ? If nothing else, we should all be able to agree here on what a terrible,.. terrible.. use of words by this organizer of the successful petition drive to get Springsteen to cancel his scheduled concert in Greensboro, N.C. Edited April 13, 2016 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Speaking of Bruce Springsteen, by the way, Bruce Burgard, a supporter of the boycott of North Carolina, and initiator of a petition in support of a request to Springsteen to cancel his upcoming concert in Greensboro, N.C. ( which " The Boss " subsequently did ) had this to say to gathered reporters yesterday regarding Springsteen's decision to cancel his show there : ( quote ) " Mr. Springsteen, like every business person, is entitled to the right to deny services where and when it violates their beliefs ". Oh the irony, huh ? If nothing else, we should all be able to agree here on what a terrible,.. terrible.. use of words by this organizer of the successful petition drive to get Springsteen to cancel his scheduled concert in Greensboro, N.C. I wonder what this Mr. Burgard just walked in? Perhaps........................... http://us.123rf.com/450wm/ferwulf/ferwulf1112/ferwulf111200648/11773257-good-luck-to-step-on-####.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Sir Brasso, Your argument is a conclusion trying to fight its way to a premise. The Garfield Cadets did not deliberately seek to have an all inclusive corps. The problem was not male or females but the lack of bodies in the color guard and the way color guard was moving in the activity even back in the mid-70's. Not enough males, and definitely not enough with the rifle and flag skills as typical then, turned out during early winter practices. The Little Falls CG winter guard (all-girls) did not any longer have a corps to return to since their's had ceased during that same early winter. For the corps administration, it was not a revolutionary banner waving political agenda but a forced choice from depletion. Yes, the trial basis was not wildly nor widely accepted in the corps; Aunt Nell carried the grudge well into the 1980's. And yet it was a few seasons before females were allowed in the hornline and percussion line. You're imposing your agenda on history rather than going to those who made the decisions and finding their motivations for the choices they made. Some of this is spelled out in the wonderful history written by Gregg Cinzio and Dave Shaw. Some of this is from personal conversations with past admins and faculty like Hughie Mahon, Joe Cinzio, and some now deceased. You might consult MikeD of DCP, a corps alum who marched around the years the change occurred. It was not political agenda at all but a question of the corps not folding. I joined the second year of the girl guard, after the 69 season. It is pretty much as you stated above.The Little Falls Cadet guard came over en masse (pretty much) when the corps itself folded. And yes, Aunt Nell hated the addition, and her daughter actually did the uniform work for the girls, because she refused to help them. The corps kept the boy honor guard for a couple of years. One major NJ corps, St Lucy's Cadets, actually went from a girl guard to all-boys in the mid-60's, until they folded in 69. Of note is the fact that the very best hornline in the country in 1971,. Argonne, was a coed line already. BS added a girl guard to stave off folding in 1972, a lot of them from The Colleens indoor guard, a VERY good guard here in NJ. It didn't work for long, and they were gone after 1972. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) I joined the second year of the girl guard, after the 69 season. It is pretty much as you stated above.The Little Falls Cadet guard came over en masse (pretty much) when the corps itself folded. And yes, Aunt Nell hated the addition, and her daughter actually did the uniform work for the girls, because she refused to help them. The corps kept the boy honor guard for a couple of years. One major NJ corps, St Lucy's Cadets, actually went from a girl guard to all-boys in the mid-60's, until they folded in 69. Of note is the fact that the very best hornline in the country in 1971,. Argonne, was a coed line already. BS added a girl guard to stave off folding in 1972, a lot of them from The Colleens indoor guard, a VERY good guard here in NJ. It didn't work for long, and they were gone after 1972. My two older brothers had the privilege of marching with Little Falls for the corps' last season in '68. OK... maybe not so much of a privilege, because the corps pretty much sucked that year. I remember the Colleens!!! You're right, they were terrific. Was that Mary Deniston's guard? Edited April 13, 2016 by Fran Haring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranintothedoor Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 It looks to me that, from what I read (have not seen the actual HB2 language, but read a couple different FAQ pages about it), there could be some things that would affect transgender corps members in a public school housing site. If this were actually enforced while a corps is in NC (probably wouldn't unless someone complained... which is very possible in this day and age...): 1) Transgender members who have not changed the gender on their birth certificate (this is possible to do) have to use the facilities designated for their listed birth certificate gender. It would behoove the member to make sure they change their birth certificate prior to tour/camps and bring a copy with them... just in case. 2) Staff and volunteers should be careful. Male adults shouldn't use the women's facility (and vice-versa) even if everyone else is asleep or in rehearsal to shower, etc. I only say this because if there aren't any hot showers in the men's room but the women's room does... everyone wants a hot shower, but it's just not worth the risk. 3) The Site Coordinator should look into a single occupancy restroom/shower facility (or take it upon themselves to create/designate one) for any transgender member, especially if the birth certificate thing is not in place and there could be confusion. I have no doubt corps will respect each other and make sure every member is protected while on tour. Even if there are moral objections to the issue on an individual basis among members, the kid/young adult in question should have the full confidence of brotherly camaraderie from their corps-mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISP Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 My two older brothers had the privilege of marching with Little Falls for the corps' last season in '68. OK... maybe not so much of a privilege, because the corps pretty much sucked that year. I remember the Colleens!!! You're right, they were terrific. Was that Mary Deniston's guard? It was Mary Deniston's guard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 My two older brothers had the privilege of marching with Little Falls for the corps' last season in '68. OK... maybe not so much of a privilege, because the corps pretty much sucked that year. I remember the Colleens!!! You're right, they were terrific. Was that Mary Deniston's guard? YES! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) The Eastern Massachusetts Drum Corps Circuit as well as the Massachusetts CYO Drum Corps Circuit adopted into their bylaws in the 1950's, that all participating Drum Corps in their Circuits had to admit women into their ranks. With this, many women found their way into the Color Guards in these Corps initially. As a result, all the top Drum Corps in Eastern Massachusetts by the late 1950's had women in their ranks. St. Kevin Emerald Knights, Boston Crusaders, I.C. Reveries, St. Mary's Majestic Knights, St. Mary's Cardinals, Cambridge Caballeros, St. Rose Scarlet Lancers ( Chic Corea marched here back then ), I.C. Queensmen, Spartans of Nashua ( N.H. )... and all the rest of them. During the 60's many of the Junior Corps in NY/NJ and throughout the Midwest and Canada were still marching many All Male Corps. Fast forward to today, and even all the Military Academy Drum & Bugle Corps that for over 200 years excluded women in their ranks, now have women marching in their ranks. Edited April 13, 2016 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Transgender members who have not changed the gender on their birth certificate (this is possible to do) have to use the facilities designated for their listed birth certificate gender. It would behoove the member to make sure they change their birth certificate prior to tour/camps and bring a copy with them... just in case. Sounds like a pragmatic and sound advice... and hopefully will lessen any potential confusion that might arise on tour for the Transgender marchers, and everybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantombari1 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) The drum corps world is one of the most progressive of any activity. Let the lawmakers do what they must - or think they must. But, for goodness sake, I don't know what good this discussion will do within the pages of DCP. If we created a discussion thread for any politically-charged law in (you pick the state), we'd all have our minds blown. Like all things related everyone wants equal treatment...Next thing you know pedophiles and rapist will also scream for equality, Let all male corps and all female corps continue as they have. Sounds like some have labeled them as LGBT corps already. There are plenty of alternatives out there unless of course you're white and identify as black, or black that identifies as white or human that identifies as an animal...Eventually everything will become permissible and no one will be able to complain...except for that one person. The cycle never ends. My final thought on this...How will anyone tell the difference between a Transgender person going into the ladies room and a Pedophile doing the same...(This is reality) Edited April 13, 2016 by Phantombari1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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