Herk Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 I agree. Imagine going to a new movie. You watch the movie. You are engrossed in the story, but then near the ending of it, the movie just stops without any warning to you. The production company sent out the incomplete movie anyway. So you leave the theatre ( having paid full price ) not knowing the full movie. You have to wait until your friends go see the movie in a week or 2, to know the full movie and its ending. ( then you find out that this movie production company has a habit of putting out incomplete movies to the paying customer). My guess, such an incomplete movie production company will continue to put out incomplete movie productions until such time as they are " penalized HEAVILY " for doing this to the paying customers. Shows in DCI used to start in May. Putting an incomplete production on the field this close to July ( the season only runs 8 weeks now ) is unacceptable. Or should be, imo. DCI, as far as I know, doesn't have any rules about incomplete shows and I don't think DCI should be responsible for ensuring that corps provide one. They judge what's presented. That's all. Now...just like that movie scenario you presented...if the fans don't like what the corps put on the field, they can respond by not going to see the show. Money talks...and if enough people decide not to see the show the corps will respond accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 I can, if I'm paying to see it. Imagine going to a Broadway show... which is performance art at a very high level... and seeing an incomplete show. Lots of folks would be demanding a refund. Why don't the same rules apply to any "art" performance that relies on ticket sales to survive? Fran... you can bet your life, if any fans here that want to defend what only be properly described as a scoring charade, how many of them would be so nonchalant about this, if a concert they went to, or a movie, etc was only half complete, and it just stopped at the half way, or 3/ 4th way point. They'd be ###### bigtime and we all know it. ( haha!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 DCI, as far as I know, doesn't have any rules about incomplete shows and I don't think DCI should be responsible for ensuring that corps provide one. If so, thats even more bizarre. It means that theoretically, a Corps could simply arrive at a show, collect their " appearance fee ", and get back on the bus, and move on. If there is no penalty for half a performance, then there be no penalty for a full non performance either if BK could have gotten a 62 for half a performance, could they have gotten a 31 for not performing at all ? I know its a silly question, but its a silly question based upon a silly system where... as you tell us... there are no rules for not performing certain requirements at a show other than an " appearance fee " for making an " appearance ", but not performing, or performing only half of what was expected in the show competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 If so, thats even more bizarre. It means that theoretically, a Corps could simply arrive at a show, collect their " appearance fee ", and get back on the bus, and move on. If there is no penalty for half a performance, then there be no penalty for a full non performance either if BK could have gotten a 62 for half a performance, could they have gotten a 31 for not performing at all ? I know its a silly question, but its a silly question based upon a silly system where... as you tell us... there are no rules for not performing certain requirements at a show other than an " appearance fee " for making an " appearance ", but not performing, or performing only half of what was expected in the show competition. I'm quite sure if BK just showed up and didn't actually perform anything their score would be zero, since the judges have nothing to base a score upon. If you want a penalty, that should be sufficient. And, believe me, if BK actually did something like that, they wouldn't be invited back to the show. As I said...money talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpendell Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) You guys..... it's not that deep. Every corps grows in their own way, and that's BK's way of doing it. It's not the first time they've done this for their first performance, so I don't understand why there's such shock on here. Also, BK didn't even place the highest, so I don't see why people are freaking out again. They could have placed higher if they had a full show, and I think it's safe to say they know that. They know what they're doing obviously I'm positive they weren't thinking, "Oh crap, mid cal is friday and we're not finished!! " They could have put their show completely on the field and could have ended up last. It's what's best for them. At the end of the day, who cares? We know they're going to be a finalist, we know they've made phenomenal progress these past three years. Can people give them a break a bit, and let them do their thing? I'm kinda glad that people are mad about the length of the performance over the actual performance itself, haven't heard anything negative about it at all actually. Edited June 25, 2016 by johnpendell 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) So you're saying that BK doesn't work their butts off like everybody else? They don't want to put 11 minutes of crap on the field only to have to make tons on changes around regional time, which PLENTY of groups do. Be patient, the end result will be great. Nobody in their right mind is claiming that BK students and staff aren't working hard. That's not the claim. You're putting words in others' mouths. And nobody here is claiming that BK's methods aren't effective. They reported to spring training a full week earlier than, for example, Troopers did. No question they could have put their entire show out there by June 24 if they wanted to, but for their own reasons they decide not to do it that way. Yet we all expect them to be in the hunt for a top-6 finish this year. Clearly, whatever they do, however they do it, works. So, the issue is not work ethic. It is not effectiveness. Can we all agree on that? And stop assuming motives? The questions, and they are fair ones, are 1) how the scoring system should respond to BK's methods, and 2) how fair are BK's methods to the ticket-buying public? Based on what some others on this thread have said, I take it that the score BK received Friday night took into account their abbreviated performance and was not as high as it would have been had they performed more material. In other words, the "penalty" is already baked into their score. I don't know if that's way things actually work with judges, but if it's true and if BK performed only about 7 minutes -- or roughly 2/3 as much time as others did -- their score does not strike me as 2/3 that of others. If BK got a 62 and it represents a 2/3 score, that projects to a 90-something once they put a full show out there. So whatever the penalty is, it doesn't appear to be derived from the time gap between them and other corps. Which raises the question: How, exactly, is any penalty for a short show assessed? If there is no value entered in the "penalties" column on the scoresheet, then we're all left to only guess at how any penalty was built into the score. Perhaps judges have guidance on this? As for the fans, yeah, it's a disappointment. But I take the charitable view. If I paid for a ticket to a MLB game and they played only 6 innings, I'd complain to the management. Those guys are professionals, and they are selling a product, pure quid pro quo -- your money for our game. But this is drum corps. For the most part, I put my DCI expenditures into the donation category. My expectations about DCI's end of the bargain are not held to the same standard as MLB's end of the bargain. Understanding the nature and purpose of the activity, I cut it some slack. Even with BK playing only a partial show, the overall lineup at Fresno would have provided more than my money's worth of entertainment for the evening. I would just choose not to sweat it. With BK, you get what you get in June, that's just the way it is. If it meant that much to me, I'd move to Allentown. Edited June 25, 2016 by 2muchcoffeeman 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 DCI, as far as I know, doesn't have any rules about incomplete shows and I don't think DCI should be responsible for ensuring that corps provide one. They judge what's presented. That's all. Now...just like that movie scenario you presented...if the fans don't like what the corps put on the field, they can respond by not going to see the show. Money talks...and if enough people decide not to see the show the corps will respond accordingly. I am guessing there wasn't a lot of Knights merch sold last night. Regardless of the reasons, this is not the way you want to start your season, especially if you are the Knights, who many believe have a decent shot at climbing into the elite level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Lancer Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 So was the panel really the same one that judged the opener last night like it says on fromthepressbox? If it is, I find that VERY interesting...... I was wondering if that was the case. Thanks for letting us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) I'm quite sure if BK just showed up and didn't actually perform anything their score would be zero, since the judges have nothing to base a score upon. To follow this logic however, BK got build up points for essentially doing nothing for half their alloted competition time. Would BK have passed BD ( who had a completed show.. time wise ) had they had a full show, instead of half a show ? Well, yes, it is reasonable to assume that BK would have topped the Blue Devils in competition last nite, if the second half of their show was as good as the first. Absolutely. On the other hand, BD had to show the judges their MM's endurance for their fully timed show, while BK MM's only had to show they could inhale and exhale at a standing position regarding their endurance abilities for their 2nd half of their show, by contrast... so who knows. Edited June 25, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStainGlass Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 East coast thoughts that didn't read many posts because sleep was important. If I only got to see the show once live and you play 5 minutes I would be ###### off. It would actually make me thing about not going to future shows in the season knowing I'm paying for half a show. If open class can finish a show with shorter moveins than world I expect every wrld class to be ready or just don't go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.