ronlambplays Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 If judges aren't considering crowd reactions as part of GE, then what is GE for? If the crowd isn't into what a corps is doing, but that corps gets a high GE score, I think that translates as a disconnect between judging and "actual" GE. I haven't posted in years. I'm content to engage in the discussions from afar, but this comment is perhaps one of the best I've seen on DCP. It gets at the root of most of the disappointment with programming direction. Great job! Astute observation. Drum Corps survives because it is what we love, but DCI has to remember that the butts in seats is what it really is all about - lifetime fans and fond memories. It is possible to entertain the paying customers and challenge the members. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 If judges aren't considering crowd reactions as part of GE, then what is GE for? If the crowd isn't into what a corps is doing, but that corps gets a high GE score, I think that translates as a disconnect between judging and "actual" GE. I do think that rewarding the impact of a show on the audience is a fundamental aim of GE, and they have worked to make it better, but it has to be something they can measure objectively and fairly to the extent possible. So I assume they are more likely to judge the effectivenessif a show at communicating something, be it a message, a concept, a story, an emotion, etc. or some combination of all of these things, than whether we OR they agree with the message, like the concept, like feeling the emotion, and whatnot. And there are all kinds of ways to be affected which do not translate into the same kind of measurable reaction. A show can be effective in making one happy or sad, excited or thoughtful, etc. You can't measure that sort of thing by applause. Not to mention audience response will always be affected by location and things like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 the butts in seats is what it really is all about - lifetime fans and fond memories. It is possible to entertain the paying customers and challenge the members. Second statement is true; first statement is false. Not a single drum corps exists for the benefit of the fans first. Each one exists for the benefit of its students first. The real customer is the tuition-paying marching member, not the ticket-buying fan. It starts with the kid on the field, not with the butt in the seat. Fans and MMs form a virtuous circle, yes, and one would not be possible without the other. But show-design considerations must satisfy the real paying customer -- the performer on the field -- first. If a 19-year-old doesn't want to march it, its appeal to fans is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 the butts in seats is what it really is all about - lifetime fans and fond memories. It is possible to entertain the paying customers and challenge the members. Second statement is true; first statement is false. Not a single drum corps exists for the benefit of the fans first. Each one exists for the benefit of its students first. The real customer is the tuition-paying marching member, not the ticket-buying fan. It starts with the kid on the field, not with the butt in the seat. Fans and MMs form a virtuous circle, yes, and one would not be possible without the other. But show-design considerations must satisfy the real paying customer -- the performer on the field -- first. If a 19-year-old doesn't want to march it, its appeal to fans is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowmarcher Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Having marched on that field, I think part of the reason for the dead crowd might be the distance from the field to the stands. There is a massive track between the two and space on either side. A lot of the sound and personal connection gets lost in that area. In 2014 I remember not getting a great vibe from the crowd. That was one of the reasons I love the Mankato, MN show. There isn't even room for a drum major podium, they conduct from the bleachers. Talk about personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 I do think that rewarding the impact of a show on the audience is a fundamental aim of GE, and they have worked to make it better, but it has to be something they can measure objectively and fairly to the extent possible. So I assume they are more likely to judge the effectivenessif a show at communicating something, be it a message, a concept, a story, an emotion, etc. or some combination of all of these things, than whether we OR they agree with the message, like the concept, like feeling the emotion, and whatnot. And there are all kinds of ways to be affected which do not translate into the same kind of measurable reaction. A show can be effective in making one happy or sad, excited or thoughtful, etc. You can't measure that sort of thing by applause. Not to mention audience response will always be affected by location and things like that. Agree 100%. Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronlambplays Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Second statement is true; first statement is false. Not a single drum corps exists for the benefit of the fans first. Each one exists for the benefit of its students first. The real customer is the tuition-paying marching member, not the ticket-buying fan. It starts with the kid on the field, not with the butt in the seat. Fans and MMs form a virtuous circle, yes, and one would not be possible without the other. But show-design considerations must satisfy the real paying customer -- the performer on the field -- first. If a 19-year-old doesn't want to march it, its appeal to fans is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronlambplays Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 (edited) I don't disagree with your statement, mine was with regard to GE, not the overall experience. I think we're both on the right track. Edited July 3, 2016 by ronlambplays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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