Liahona Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 As I've said before, former two time National College Basketball Coach of the Year Eddie Fogler is often asked if officials are biased. He answers: Every official knows which team is supposed to win the game. If you think that doesn't factor largely into how judges perceive relative "good-ness" of corps, you're just not being honest. I will say this, though: With shows increasing in demand and variety every year, it's becoming less and less arguable about who is best. You may not like a certain show, but it ain't just playing loud and marching fast anymore. Shows are so complex on so many levels now, that you can have a medalist quality show in six categories and suck in one —and it's just obvious to everyone. I agree...basically you are saying that the blue devils (for example) are expected to be very good or even the best...anything less would not be in the "minds" of those judging them... A little off on a tangent here...I've always wondered about the critiques...do judges offer "better" input to those groups perceived to be contenders versus the others? I'm not saying that everyone doesn't get assistance and suggestions to improve their show...I am just curious as to whether the assistance is more "favorable" or skewed towards the top groups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Given the level of competition today do you reallyy believe a 10th place corps coming out of the gate could go to 1st? lets look at this realistically. If a corps is so good as to jump that much in 8 weeks then why did they come out in 10th. Obviously there's a reason why a corps would come out 10th which would prevent such a jump. We're basically saying the same thing. I reluctantly agree. The only way to "fix" that is to have twice as many corps, with twice as many qualified MMs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Given the level of competition today do you reallyy believe a 10th place corps coming out of the gate could go to 1st? lets look at this realistically. If a corps is so good as to jump that much in 8 weeks then why did they come out in 10th. Obviously there's a reason why a corps would come out 10th which would prevent such a jump. I don't think he was saying that actually...he was just saying more that he wanted to "believe it to be possible"...not the actual reality... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I agree...basically you are saying that the blue devils (for example) are expected to be very good or even the best...anything less would not be in the "minds" of those judging them... A little off on a tangent here...I've always wondered about the critiques...do judges offer "better" input to those groups perceived to be contenders versus the others? I'm not saying that everyone doesn't get assistance and suggestions to improve their show...I am just curious as to whether the assistance is more "favorable" or skewed towards the top groups? In my experience ( On both sides ) it is not a judges job but it is the staff's job to get out of a judge what they need. A good judge does not try to re- write but to be accountable for their observations. It is also the job of a staff member to get what they need from a judges comments, ask, questions, listen, if input is wanted ask for it if not given. Often toward the top a judge knows that the staff person does know what needs to be done ( for some anyway ..lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I don't think he was saying that actually...he was just saying more that he wanted to "believe it to be possible"...not the actual reality... I know..I think..lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 We're basically saying the same thing. I reluctantly agree. The only way to "fix" that is to have twice as many corps, with twice as many qualified MMs. I think we might be..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 time will tell and sure it is possible and would be great for BAC but as you know its takes an awful lot to do this AND it also means someone else has to fall. Competition today is NOT just about if I got better BUT has someone else slipped. WE see that with corps in 13-17th some great improvements and still not making it. BAC or any corps can only take care of their own business and what it takes for long term success , the rest is impossible to control. I agree with your viewpoint as well here...Boston had an off-year and/or has been quite stagnant the last few years...and basically allowed both Crossmen and The Academy to pass them by (well earned by the way by both of them)...it is getting increasingly more difficult to make finals...if this was 10 or more years ago I'd argue that many of the 13th to 17th place corps would have been in finals with the products that they put on the field IMO... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 In my experience ( On both sides ) it is not a judges job but it is the staff's job to get out of a judge what they need. A good judge does not try to re- write but to be accountable for their observations. It is also the job of a staff member to get what they need from a judges comments, ask, questions, listen, if input is wanted ask for it if not given. Often toward the top a judge knows that the staff person does know what needs to be done ( for some anyway ..lol) This would mean to me that a "experienced winning staff" have the ability to keep winning because they know what needs to be done to repeat that success...the others unfortunately are still trying to figure things out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 This would mean to me that a "experienced winning staff" have the ability to keep winning because they know what needs to be done to repeat that success...the others unfortunately are still trying to figure things out... this yes but a winning staff is just 1 part of the puzzle. Many more factors and what others are doing and of course a little luck doesnt hurt..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I agree with your viewpoint as well here...Boston had an off-year and/or has been quite stagnant the last few years...and basically allowed both Crossmen and The Academy to pass them by (well earned by the way by both of them)...it is getting increasingly more difficult to make finals...if this was 10 or more years ago I'd argue that many of the 13th to 17th place corps would have been in finals with the products that they put on the field IMO... the is very true. the level is very high all around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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