GUARDLING Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I think you nailed it...My question is what is the set of criteria that makes a "candidate" have potential? I dont want to mix up what I am saying. I do not think the predictability has anything to do with judging BUT with corps and how they do what they need to. There are many thing which come into play or the criteria for potential movement. It can be something very small or a total re- write. As I said though it's just just about what a corps does BUT what others are doing also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I think we would all agree that, no matter what the level of improvement a corps might make, it is practically impossible for any corps to jump up more than a certain number of positions during the tour—from beginning to end. This is because DCI scores primarily on relative terms, rather than by a book. Think of it this way. You have a 3-point shooting contest between 10 basketball players, with 50 competitions. Whomever makes the most 3-pointers in each of the 50 contests wins the title for that night. If you make 0 of 30 on your first competition you finish last; If you make all 30 on the final competition, you finish first. Does not matter that you went 0-fer on the first night, or even on the next to last night, you made all 30 on the last night so you won it all. I'm not saying it is possible to judge DCI this way or even that it should be possible. In fact I personally like the subjective nature of drum corps judging. But I also recognize that once you are grouped in a box, you simply aren't like to improve more than one box for the entire season no matter how well you perform your show. I would love to know what the biggest jump has been in modern DCI history from the opening show to Finals. I bet it isn't more than five positions in the history of DCI. I think when we come up with these what if's we tailor it to fit the argument.Do we really believe that corps X coming out in 10th going to jump to top 3? Putting aside the obvious IMO we are talking only a minimal amount of time to actually do this. Time is never on our side when catch up is the game played. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I think you nailed it...My question is what is the set of criteria that makes a "candidate" have potential? I'd agree with this, quite reluctantly. I'd like to believe Crossmen could start 10th and finish first, but that's not practically possible given the crazy parameters of a DCI season. That's why I continue to believe that the single most important advantage BD continues to have is the age and experience of its A corps members. They're starting halfway to the finish line on Day 1, and they know you're not catching them with high schoolers marching their first tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) I think when we come up with these what if's we tailor it to fit the argument.Do we really believe that corps X coming out in 10th going to jump to top 3? Putting aside the obvious IMO we are talking only a minimal amount of time to actually do this. Time is never on our side when catch up is the game played. I won't be surprised if Boston Crusaders' trek is not that far removed from that of Garfield Cadets in the early '80's. From not making finals to multiple championships within about a half dozen seasons. Outstanding. Edited October 3, 2016 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I think we would all agree that, no matter what the level of improvement a corps might make, it is practically impossible for any corps to jump up more than a certain number of positions during the tour—from beginning to end. This is because DCI scores primarily on relative terms, rather than by a book. Think of it this way. You have a 3-point shooting contest between 10 basketball players, with 50 competitions. Whomever makes the most 3-pointers in each of the 50 contests wins the title for that night. If you make 0 of 30 on your first competition you finish last; If you make all 50 on the final competition, you finish first. Does not matter that you went 0-fer on the first night, or even on the next to last night, you made all 50 on the last night so you won it all. I'm not saying it is possible to judge DCI this way or even that it should be possible. In fact I personally like the subjective nature of drum corps judging. But I also recognize that once you are grouped in a box, you simply aren't like to improve more than one box for the entire season no matter how well you perform your show. I would love to know what the biggest jump has been in modern DCI history from the opening show to Finals. I bet it isn't more than five positions in the history of DCI. I agree for sure about that...even in June...sorry to admit it...there are levels...and those hurtles become increasing more difficult to jump as the season progresses further...many people IMO are deluding themselves (myself included) to believe differently...hence why people believe in the whole slotting idea...25 years ago I believed it was just political...but as I've seasoned I've come to realize that for DCI it couldn't be farther from the truth and I was just being delusional...every year in June after 3 or 4 contests we seem to all know who the contenders are for the title...anything else is just wishful thinking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I agree for sure about that...even in June...sorry to admit it...there are levels...and those hurtles become increasing more difficult to jump as the season progresses further...many people IMO are deluding themselves (myself included) to believe differently...hence why people believe in the whole slotting idea...25 years ago I believed it was just political...but as I've seasoned I've come to realize that for DCI it couldn't be farther from the truth and I was just being delusional...every year in June after 3 or 4 contests we seem to all know who the contenders are for the title...anything else is just wishful thinking... As I've said before, former two time National College Basketball Coach of the Year Eddie Fogler is often asked if officials are biased. He answers: Every official knows which team is supposed to win the game. If you think that doesn't factor largely into how judges perceive relative "good-ness" of corps, you're just not being honest. I will say this, though: With shows increasing in demand and variety every year, it's becoming less and less arguable about who is best. You may not like a certain show, but it ain't just playing loud and marching fast anymore. Shows are so complex on so many levels now, that you can have a medalist quality show in six categories and suck in one —and it's just obvious to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I'd agree with this, quite reluctantly. I'd like to believe Crossmen could start 10th and finish first, but that's not practically possible given the crazy parameters of a DCI season. That's why I continue to believe that the single most important advantage BD continues to have is the age and experience of its A corps members. They're starting halfway to the finish line on Day 1, and they know you're not catching them with high schoolers marching their first tour. Given the level of competition today do you reallyy believe a 10th place corps coming out of the gate could go to 1st? lets look at this realistically. If a corps is so good as to jump that much in 8 weeks then why did they come out in 10th. Obviously there's a reason why a corps would come out 10th which would prevent such a jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) I'd agree with this, quite reluctantly. I'd like to believe Crossmen could start 10th and finish first, but that's not practically possible given the crazy parameters of a DCI season. That's why I continue to believe that the single most important advantage BD continues to have is the age and experience of its A corps members. They're starting halfway to the finish line on Day 1, and they know you're not catching them with high schoolers marching their first tour. There is a lot of truth to this...I did a reunion concert a few years ago where I was invited in to play lead trumpet where I played principal chair before...we literally had only one practice run-through the day of the concert...I bought the DVD from the concert not expecting much but to support the organization...I was amazed at how well it actually turned out to tell the truth...I for some reason carried over my baggage from DCI days and felt we didn't "practice" enough...but honestly...the orchestra sounded quite masterful as if we were playing together for years...the difference here was we were all either professional musicians or part of the "A Team" or advanced players so to speak...that performance even included practically an adhoc brass ensemble piece that I learned on the spot and basically sight read during the concert....LOL...I was surprised we sounded fairly decent as well considering the lack of preparation... Edited October 3, 2016 by Liahona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) I won't be surprised if Boston Crusaders' trek is not that far removed from that of Garfield Cadets in the early '80's. From not making finals to multiple championships within about a half dozen seasons. Outstanding. time will tell and sure it is possible and would be great for BAC but as you know its takes an awful lot to do this AND it also means someone else has to fall. Competition today is NOT just about if I got better BUT has someone else slipped. WE see that with corps in 13-17th some great improvements and still not making it. BAC or any corps can only take care of their own business and what it takes for long term success , the rest is impossible to control. Edited October 3, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I won't be surprised if Boston Crusaders' trek is not that far removed from that of Garfield Cadets in the early '80's. From not making finals to multiple championships within about a half dozen seasons. Outstanding. I could only dream of this result...if this indeed became the case...I like your optimism...not surprising at all coming from a Boston homer like me :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.