Electronic Amplification

[Cadevilina Crown]

31 minutes ago, soccerguy315 said:

maybe... but BD is just micing the whole hornline and so far, they've stayed ahead of Vanguard...

BD has been doing this for a few years now, because lately they've sounded noticeably louder than everyone else whenever I've seen them live.

[ftwdrummer]

3 hours ago, Ghost said:

If I counted right, they are marching 64 brass.  That might have something to do with it.  If they are using 64, they may have extra mm in the guard to help move the props allowing the guard to still add to the drill visual.

64 brass in the primary hornline, 12 with wireless mics. So effectively a 64 person acoustic hornline (white shirts with red snakes), and a 12 person amplified chamber ensemble (gray shirt with gold snakes).

It's a bit of an expansion on the idea Shaw was playing around with with the featured flugel in Phantom 2010.

[CDUB]

Friday night, I was between the 45-50, and I could not tell that BD's horn line was mic'd.  They were loud, but not nearly as loud as Bloo, who melted my face off.  They were extremely loud, I and do not believe it was from amplification.

Last night I was around a 30-yard line, which means I was almost right in front of a speaker (11 rows up).  Other than SCV's mellos, I could not tell that anyone was mic'ing their horn lines.  Crown was gloriously loud, but again, I don't believe the loudness I was hearing was coming from a speaker.  That's not how it felt--it felt like the sound was coming off the field.  Plus, I can tell the difference between amplified/compressed sound and acoustic sound.  

 

That said, it is definitely a different experience watching a show on Flo, and I'm wondering if a lot of the grumbling has to do with that experience, which is 1/5 of the experience of seeing a show live.

Anyone have any connections with MM/staff members of any of the corps who folks suspect may be mic'ing the horn line? Maybe they could do a little digging and see if they can get some insight into what their corps is doing/not doing with respect to amplification?

[soccerguy315]

@CDUB there are some corps that put 3 (usually) mics up on the front sideline.  Usually the 50 and both 35s.  They are big and fuzzy and they point toward the field.  They are behind the pit.

BD, Bloo, and Cavaliers are definitely guilty.

Vanguard is at least half guilty because their 'featured performers' are mic'd the whole show, including ensemble impacts.

My guess is Crown is also guilty, but can't confirm.  And Boston and Phantom might be as well, but not sure about these.

[TwoValves]

On 8/5/2017 at 4:45 AM, Stu said:

What baffles me is that fans willingly and gleefully buy extremely high priced tickets at sold out sports arenas where pop bands do this very thing of finger syncing, air playing, and lip syncing. It is all about the over the top show and stage spectacle now and nothing really about the substance of live musical performance; and I am afraid it would be the same type of fan willingness if DCI at some point did jump into that vein of show over substance.

Please cite ONE example where you can prove there is "finger-syning" or "air playing."  You are stating that performers on the field are NOT producing any sound from their instruments and it is instead artificially reproduced some other way.  To be clear... THIS is what you are saying is happening on the field in World Class DCI corps?

You are also saying that BD, SCV, Crown and Coats are NOT putting on live musical performances?

 

Or maybe your hyperbole and exaggeration is working as hard as the kids in DCI?

[Stu]

4 hours ago, TwoValves said:

Please cite ONE example where you can prove there is "finger-syning" or "air playing."  You are stating that performers on the field are NOT producing any sound from their instruments and it is instead artificially reproduced some other way.  To be clear... THIS is what you are saying is happening on the field in World Class DCI corps?

You are also saying that BD, SCV, Crown and Coats are NOT putting on live musical performances?

 

Or maybe your hyperbole and exaggeration is working as hard as the kids in DCI?

To be clear: The following is what is happening in the world of Pop, and it has a 'likelihood' of happening in drum corps in the future.  I never claimed it is currently going on in DCI, but the Bluecoats pitch-bend with the brass mimicking the synth is a step in that direction..

There are many things the public is not aware of as it applies to the commercial world of pop music.  For example, many Super Bowl Halftime performances since the Michael Jackson era have had musicians on stage using instruments unplugged from amps and playing along to recorded tracks without any live sound being produced (this is a real situation and it is called finger-syncing in the industry). This also happens on some live shows like Saturday Night Live.  I personally have an acoustic drum set that has Remo Mesh Quiet Heads with Zildjian Low Volume Cymbals (look them up they actually exist) in which I have done live concerts playing along with recorded tracks in which the Promoter wanted the original tracks played live with me mimicking the drums on the recordings. The only time most people notice stuff like this is when someone like Ashlee Simpson gets caught lip-syncing live. And if there is live sound being produced, it typically will go through auto tune and quantized auto correct combined with some sort of pre-track before going out the amps; which is a concerning situation since DCI corps 'could' easily move in this direction with the current electronics and amplification they are now using.

Note: Also read my next post about the Red Hot Chili Peppers and others!!

Edited August 7, 2017 by Stu

[denverjohn]

1 hour ago, TwoValves said:

Please cite ONE example where you can prove there is "finger-syning" or "air playing."  You are stating that performers on the field are NOT producing any sound from their instruments and it is instead artificially reproduced some other way.  To be clear... THIS is what you are saying is happening on the field in World Class DCI corps?

You are also saying that BD, SCV, Crown and Coats are NOT putting on live musical performances?

 

Or maybe your hyperbole and exaggeration is working as hard as the kids in DCI?

 

[Stu]

3 hours ago, TwoValves said:

Please cite ONE example where you can prove there is "finger-syning" or "air playing." 

Here are cited examples in the world of commercial music of finger syncing that dates back over the years:  And please note that the Bluecoats brass mimic to the synth pitch bend was the first step in this direction for DCI.

The Red Hot Chili Peppers performed without their instruments plugged in to amps (ie finger synced) during their Super Bowl 2014 half-time performance.  The band's bass player, Flea, stated after the show that they were offered no other option by Super Bowl organizers. This has been the case at most all Super Bowl Halftime performances from Coldplay and Katy Perry back to Michel Jackson.

John Williams' piece at US President Obama's inauguration was actually a recording and the instruments were mimed live (finger synced) by musicians Yo-Yo Ma and Itzhak Perlman.

When Nirvana was not allowed to actually play their instruments live during a concert, singer/guitarist Kurt Cobain did not even pretend to play his instrument (refused to finger sync) as the prerecorded track of his guitar played out for all to hear..

Frank Zappa and his band appeared on Detroit TV, the producer required them to mimic (finger sync) to a recording. Prior to the broadcast, Zappa gathered together some objects and then instructed each band member to do movements not in sync with the music, thus exposing the requested finger-syncing.

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by Stu

[BDCorno]

15 hours ago, soccerguy315 said:

maybe... but BD is just micing the whole hornline and so far, they've stayed ahead of Vanguard...

Vanguard is mic'ing their entire hornline too...though they're not playing as much. The 12 man ensemble is individually mic'ed and providing most of the octane in their book. They use their setup very effectively. BD has the four soloists mic'ed in the ballad, and two additional mellos that are individually mic'ed and used in the closer.

[Stu]

6 hours ago, TwoValves said:

You are also saying that BD, SCV, Crown and Coats are NOT putting on live musical performances?

I just ran across something about NOT putting on live musical performances. If you listen close to the GH interview posted in a different thread he states emphatically that some corps are now 'recording' their horns and actully playing back those recordings during the actual show.