cixelsyd Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 On 8/7/2017 at 0:38 PM, Jeff Ream said: please show me where DCI has rescinded a rule except for singing Well, there was that time when the DCI board went on record as being permanently opposed to a 3-valve bugle. That happened circa 1976, when approving the 2-piston horn. Evidently, "permanent" = 14 years. Or how about when DCI made shows longer in 1974, shorter in 1986, and longer in 2017? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: I said this in 2003....once you let the cat out of the bag, you cant put it back in. why? because technology has ways of hiding stuff. thats why those silly rhythmic intent rules are gone in pretty much everywhere but WGI percussion. Unless you have a chief judge willing to walk into the pit to stand there and watch people push buttons to verify if it's live or memorex, there's no way to know for sure. and same thing with brass......is it real? sampled? what is it? remember sound was to be controlled on the field, til they found Bluecoats staff walking around with an ipad. that rules was changed quick. to this day you cant prove a moment is kid created on the synth or pad or the person controlling the rig or ipad Billboard editor Thom Duffy and Entertainment Columnist Rashod Ollison have both commented on this (honest disclosure: I did combine the overlaps of the two into one quote): "The expectations of fans have changed, and that's the driving force here ... Since the advent of MTV and other video music channels, pop audiences have been fed elaborate performances thick with jaw-dropping effects, awesome choreography, fabulous clothes, and marvelous bodies. And the same level of perfection spectacle is expected to extend beyond the video set to the live concert stage; But since musical performers cannot produce that level of visual spectacle live while actually singing and playing that is why it is now acceptable for the fans to knowingly hear recorded tracks at supposed live concerts. And if concert performances sound and look flat compared to the fans expectations, fans won't pay up to $300 for a live concert ticket." Edited August 9, 2017 by Stu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 46 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: I said this in 2003....once you let the cat out of the bag, you cant put it back in. why? because technology has ways of hiding stuff. thats why those silly rhythmic intent rules are gone in pretty much everywhere but WGI percussion. Unless you have a chief judge willing to walk into the pit to stand there and watch people push buttons to verify if it's live or memorex, there's no way to know for sure. and same thing with brass......is it real? sampled? what is it? remember sound was to be controlled on the field, til they found Bluecoats staff walking around with an ipad. that rules was changed quick. to this day you cant prove a moment is kid created on the synth or pad or the person controlling the rig or ipad I agree with you - there's no way to tell what's being produced live by the performers today. But I think the corps have to figure out if that's really what they want. I am skeptical that a good player wants to spend $4K for a summer of Milli Vanilli, pushing props and a whole lot of dance lessons. If the activity is supposed to be about the performers and the education they receive, it's a big mistake to make it all electronic smoke and mirrors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said: I agree with you - there's no way to tell what's being produced live by the performers today. But I think the corps have to figure out if that's really what they want. I am skeptical that a good player wants to spend $4K for a summer of Milli Vanilli, pushing props and a whole lot of dance lessons. If the activity is supposed to be about the performers and the education they receive, it's a big mistake to make it all electronic smoke and mirrors. But what if the 'education' they receive actually reflects what is going on in the real world of commercial music? A world where fans are paying $300 to $500 a ticket at sold-out pro stadiums and the fans know full well that the trade-off of hearing recorded music allows for them to watch a show with extreme visual excitement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Stu said: Billboard editor Thom Duffy and Entertainment Columnist Rashod Ollison have both commented on this (honest disclosure: I did combine the overlaps of the two into one quote): "The expectations of fans have changed, and that's the driving force here ... Since the advent of MTV and other video music channels, pop audiences have been fed elaborate performances thick with jaw-dropping effects, awesome choreography, fabulous clothes, and marvelous bodies. And the same level of perfection spectacle is expected to extend beyond the video set to the live concert stage; But since musical performers cannot produce that level of visual spectacle live while actually singing and playing that is why it is now acceptable for the fans to knowingly hear recorded tracks at supposed live concerts. And if concert performances sound and look flat compared to the fans expectations, fans won't pay up to $300 for a live concert ticket." Good catch, Stu! That's pretty much the problem here. This is why I believe there will be some clarifying and added restriction, but electronic use is here to stay. I just want it forced to be less intrusive and not so phony. Perhaps, if the DCI Board of Directors can't bring themselves to rein in their creative people, it needs to create a new UNLIMITED CLASS that does whatever it wants. Edited August 9, 2017 by Fred Windish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, Stu said: But what if the 'education' they receive actually reflects what is going on in the real world of commercial music? A world where fans are paying $300 to $500 a ticket at sold-out pro stadiums and the fans know full well that the trade-off of hearing recorded music allows for them to watch a show with extreme visual excitement? How does that "education" help the average trumpet player who pays to march DCI today? It's fine if you believe that DCI should serve a very different kind of student and teach them very different kinds of lessons. I am skeptical that the corps want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Amping the horn line is gross Seems like it’s only an advantage when others are not doing it, when all corps amp their horn line..... too much of the on field performance effect is given to adults, who has the best amp, mixer, tech Odd to see Garfield becoming disenchanted, I thought it was just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) 48 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said: How does that "education" help the average trumpet player who pays to march DCI today? It's fine if you believe that DCI should serve a very different kind of student and teach them very different kinds of lessons. I am skeptical that the corps want that. Oh; Ok. So you actually mean students learning highly qualitative musical education like students pay for at some of the best academic marching institutions in the world. In that case then, DCI is not supposed to teach real world professional music experiences, but actually teach as a higher extension of the marching performance education. Edited August 9, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Here Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I don't actually see any significant education in terms of music technique that brass players can't get elsewhere and for less. Much of learning good musical technique and difficulty is a little instruction and a whole lot of practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, Stu said: Oh; Ok. So you actually mean students learning highly qualitative musical education like students pay for at some of the best academic marching institutions in the world. In that case then, DCI is not supposed to teach real world professional music experiences, but actually teach as a higher extension of the performance education say the Ohio State music students receive while rehearsing and performing the Moonwalking Man drill for the paying fans at a sports venue. I somehow doubt that when prospective members contact a caption head and ask "what kind of music education will I get if I march", the answer is "really none, you should spend your summer at school". You're welcome to whatever opinion you prefer about the educational value of DCI. My point is that there's a big gap between who/how corps recruit today and a world where "recorded music allows for [the audience] to watch a show with extreme visual excitement". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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