BRASSO Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) I do think that DCI could do more to alleviate the appearance of a Conflict of Interest with some of these judges they hire however . Thats a bit different however than a alleged group conspiracy to award scores/placements on those assorted relationships. Thats a huge leap, I'm not willing to make. We all tend to agree we want our judges to be well experienced/ trained in the Marching Arts in order to properly judge these DCI shows. Well, I don't quite see where we think we are going to find such experience/ training if these hired judges are NOT marinated to one degree or another in the Marching Arts realm where they have once taught, designed shows for these groups at one time or another. That said, DCI might want to consider a longer time line between being on staffs, then working shows as judges. Any efforts to alleviate the very appearance of a Conflict of Interest should be considered progress re. providing full transparency, imo. DCI can do better in this respect at the moment, imo. Edited August 20, 2017 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Bobby L. Collins said: There was a lot of head-scratching in the finals thread about how Cavies leapfrogged with a show that couldn't have even started had the electricity gone out Wait, are you talking about the Cavies show or the Bluecoats?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusExGreenMachina Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 Just now, BRASSO said: I don't quite see where we think we are going to find such experience/ training if these hired judges are NOT marinated to one degree or another in the Marching Arts realm where they have once taught, designed shows for these groups at one time or another. It's a, forgive me for saying, incestuous, activity. There's no way around it. It is in many ways very self governing. Judges get called out when their colleagues see such things. I've seen it happen. It's not pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, Cappybara said: I can't speak for OP's intentions. However, I can speak to what I think his intentions were. Whether on DCP or elsewhere, there IS an undeniable sentiment that the judges are in bed with certain corps, particularly the Blue Devils. This sentiment was at its peak in 2009-2012. And it still exists now, just check out the 2015 finals thread. Whether you want to be a pedant about whether this qualifies as a "conspiracy," I honestly couldn't give two sh*ts about that, but I do think there is a general sentiment that the judges are getting it wrong often, and that these errors are purposeful rather than on accident. I attribute that to a misunderstanding on the way the sheets and the judges work, or just pure ignorance in general. Just take a look at @ContraFart's complaints in this thread regarding the point swing in the colorguard caption. One poster actually does some research (thanks @Chief Guns) and finds that the Devils actually led in that caption most of the season, and the complaining poster immediately shut up about it. In the same vein, I think Machina is just trying to provide some perspective and insight so that there is a little less ignorance or misunderstandings regarding judging. But yes, no matter what, people will doubt a judge's scores due to person disagreements on what should be rewarded. Now see, this is exactly the point. I fully disagree, and I value your opinion and I know you've been here a long time. We both lived through those posts and read the same words. But I've never interpreted what was said there to represent anything more than BD's uncanny ability to program a winning show exactly to what the sheets said they needed to. The discussion was on disbelief, and maybe a few banters were said about certain judges loyalties, but nothing EVEN CLOSE to anything approaching conspiracies between BD and judges. <<I can tell you for a fact that the overlords of this Planet are not bashful about protecting non-profit organizations from the damaging effects of illicit accusation. DCP is not that place.>> Perhaps it is that judging happens every year that makes it seem as though we discuss it more than any other subject? Were all those posts about seat-poachers really about a brewing organized seat poaching conspiracy? Jeesh! I didn't know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusExGreenMachina Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 minute ago, garfield said: Were all those posts about seat-poachers really about a brewing organized seat poaching conspiracy? Jeesh! I didn't know! Did someone say brew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, DeusExGreenMachina said: Did someone say brew? And, over that brew, do you want to change the title of this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, garfield said: (Everyone's being so NICE in here today! I love it!) Always remember though that Love spelt backwards is Evol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusExGreenMachina Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 25 minutes ago, garfield said: Really? What prompted you to speak up now? I'm just curious. Really? Why haven't we spoken up a long time ago? Years ago? That's the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusExGreenMachina Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, garfield said: And, over that brew, do you want to change the title of this thread? Your wish is my command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, garfield said: Now see, this is exactly the point. I fully disagree, and I value your opinion and I know you've been here a long time. We both lived through those posts and read the same words. But I've never interpreted what was said there to represent anything more than BD's uncanny ability to program a winning show exactly to what the sheets said they needed to. The discussion was on disbelief, and maybe a few banters were said about certain judges loyalties, but nothing EVEN CLOSE to anything approaching conspiracies between BD and judges. <<I can tell you for a fact that the overlords of this Planet are not bashful about protecting non-profit organizations from the damaging effects of illicit accusation. DCP is not that place.>> Perhaps it is that judging happens every year that makes it seem as though we discuss it more than any other subject? Were all those posts about seat-poachers really about a brewing organized seat poaching conspiracy? Jeesh! I didn't know! Like I said, the commentary isn't really limited to DCP. Have you taken a look at the live comments that are found on the YouTube video from which DCI streams retreat? That's just a small sample of the crazy stuff that gets spewed out about the "BD judging conspiracy" every year. I would've suggested you see if you can find those comments, but you may get an aneurysm reading it. Well, I don't find it hard to believe that you view the bolded text above as true, as you are an intelligent and experienced individual. But not every person who offers their opinion on the subject is as well educated. And my point is that while you may view those comments in that way, I am not quite as positive that the people making those comments are viewing it in a similar fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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