Enough Judging Conspiracy Theories

[BRASSO]

 Here's the thing... DCI could replace every single one of its current judges with new ones. They could be a new combination of male, female, young and old, ....and robots and unicorns or whatever. They'd still be some complaints somewhere that the judges " got it wrong " , or are somehow were involved in a group  conspiracy to hurt people intentionally. Wherever we find sports.. or competition... we will ALWAYS find people complaining about the umpires, the referees, the judges, etc. Its mostly " losers " trying to come to grips with their teams loss. Rather than look internally at why they did not win, they lash out at others, claiming some sort of cry baby " conspiracy " against them was the reason. Heres the scoop... DCI will have these alleged " judging conspiracies " afloat in some quarters, somewhere from now till hell freezes over. It was true in 1948 in Drum Corps.. 1964 in Drum Corps... 1999 in Drum Corps... and here in 2017 Drum Corps... DCI can be guaranteed to have these " conspiracies " in some quarters in 2127 too in Drum Corps when every Judge and poster on here will no doubt all be pushing up daisies. Its the nature of beast itself, when somebody is keeping score in the competition.

Edited August 20, 2017 by BRASSO

[DeusExGreenMachina]

Just now, BRASSO said:

DCI could replace every single one of its current judges with new ones. They could be a new combination of male. female, and unicorns. 

Fixed that for you.

You also have a good point.

[garfield]

32 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Not on DCP though. I havn't witnessed any commentary here on DCP of late ( last couple of years ) that there is any sort of organized DCI Conspiracy among the DCI Judging community. If you have seen this as an issue on other  " forums",.. other " social media " have you posted this in depth commentary of yours on THOSE forums?.... where this DCI Conspiracy within the DCI judging ranks is said on there, that is alleged to exist ? The reason I reply this way, is that sometimes DCP here gets a bad and unfair rep out and about. And if some infrequest visitor to DCP was to read your title here .. "ENOUGH ( with the )  DCI JUDGING CONPIRACIES ", they would naturally conclude that here on DCP there are a lot of posters  and commentary here that we are discussing/ complaining about DCI's judges being involved in intentional malevolent attempts  to deceive fans/ Corps with their scores/ placements. However, this has NOT been much of an issue here on DCP at all.. not this year, not in recent years. Its true that DCP does sometimes get a bad rep. Sometimes that rep is undeserved. Your tirle of your new thread here creates a false narrative, and one that frankly has not been much of an issue  (  alleged" DCI Judging conspiracies" ) on DCP at all. DCP and our regular posters here can NOT be held responsible for what is posted on OTHER sites, where all manner of ridiculous " conspiracies " tend to be posted re. DCI/ DCI Judging and the like.

I was just about to post to our friend, exMachina, that I have to hand it to him.  I skimmed but read every post and the person has been able to successfully defend himself, except to this.  And this, what Brasso's written here, is the root of my suspicion from the Opening Post.  What "conspiracy"?  Did I miss something?  Is there a brewing controversy over conspiracy theories?

What, Mr. exMachina, is your motivation for your first post?  And please know, I was on the verge of shifting to a more serious discussion.  But I don't like being led by new thoughts with little history and no real presence on The Planet.  I've been here a while.  I've learned to be cynical.  A lot of posters come in with their tailfeathers on fire about an issue.  But few come in on fire about an issue that I haven't seen deeply discussed here.

You're entitled to your opinion, and I can respectfully disagree and banter.  But coming in as a knowledgeable professional on a subject such as this makes my cynicism radar go off.

Your opinion.  I get it.

 

[Stu]

43 minutes ago, DeusExGreenMachina said:

But this does relate to DCI World Class judging, along with other marching arts.  So this is appropriate.

Thank you.

Ok, if that is the case, that archaic judging in not evaluating newer designs properly which warrants retirement does 'relate' to DCI WC, we are back to needing cited examples, not names, but scoring and ranking exsmples where that is in fact an issue within DCI WC. Thank you.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Stu

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, DeusExGreenMachina said:

I am trialing for a new caption.  My mentor is a veteran female.  She is definitely someone I do NOT want to retire and she has been involved in the activity for decades.   

You were correct in saying you didn't want to list names, but for those who are familiar with the judging community (which I'm not), it shouldn't be too hard to deduct who this lady is don't you think?

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, Ghost said:

You were correct in saying you didn't want to list names, but for those who are familiar with the judging community (which I'm not), it shouldn't be too hard to deduct who this lady is don't you think?

Wrong post, sorry.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Stu

[DeusExGreenMachina]

9 minutes ago, garfield said:

What, Mr. exMachina, is your motivation for your first post?  

 

To dispel and mitigate people insisting that there is some sort of herd mentality, that money does not matter, that reputation is reflected in our defense of numbers, and that people should judge if they aren't already.  I feel like a broken record here.

9 minutes ago, Ghost said:

You were correct in saying you didn't want to list names, but for those who are familiar with the judging community (which I'm not), it shouldn't be too hard to deduct who this lady is don't you think?

Thanks for looking out for me.  There are many of us out there so even if someone deduces who I am, it doesn't matter.  I've argued with my mentors, fellow judges, and Chief Judges, plenty of times and that's the only way we survive.  

She knows who I am and how I speak.  

I... wonder if she is @BRASSO.

[BRASSO]

39 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

 

That said, I've been lurking here a long time and I can't recall any threads about judging conspiracies.  Plenty of threads about deaf and blind judges, however. :P

 Exactly. Some people ( vocal, but decidely loud, very tiny however minority)  have been claiming " Judge Conspiracies " since well before DCI was even formed. its gone on for over 100 years... and no doubt it'll be out there 100 years from now. The good news is that these judge/ umpires/referees wholsale " conspiracies " that we find in a few quarters in all sports are mostly silly. The exceedingly rare times where sports games were found to be fixed in these very, very rare ocassions, the culprits were fined, disbarred, and others involved went to jail.

Edited August 20, 2017 by BRASSO

[Stu]

13 minutes ago, garfield said:

I was just about to post to our friend, exMachina, that I have to hand it to him.  I skimmed but read every post and the person has been able to successfully defend himself, except to this.  And this, what Brasso's written here, is the root of my suspicion from the Opening Post.  What "conspiracy"?  Did I miss something?  Is there a brewing controversy over conspiracy theories?

What, Mr. exMachina, is your motivation for your first post?  And please know, I was on the verge of shifting to a more serious discussion.  But I don't like being led by new thoughts with little history and no real presence on The Planet.  I've been here a while.  I've learned to be cynical.  A lot of posters come in with their tailfeathers on fire about an issue.  But few come in on fire about an issue that I haven't seen deeply discussed here.

You're entitled to your opinion, and I can respectfully disagree and banter.  But coming in as a knowledgeable professional on a subject such as this makes my cynicism radar go off.

Your opinion.  I get it.

 

This. How is the original posting 'directly related' to DCI WC?

Edited August 20, 2017 by Stu

[Cappybara]

6 minutes ago, garfield said:

I was just about to post to our friend, exMachina, that I have to hand it to him.  I skimmed but read every post and the person has been able to successfully defend himself, except to this.  And this, what Brasso's written here, is the root of my suspicion from the Opening Post.  What "conspiracy"?  Did I miss something?  Is there a brewing controversy over conspiracy theories?

What, Mr. exMachina, is your motivation for your first post?  And please know, I was on the verge of shifting to a more serious discussion.  But I don't like being led by new thoughts with little history and no real presence on The Planet.  I've been here a while.  I've learned to be cynical.  A lot of posters come in with their tailfeathers on fire about an issue.  But few come in on fire about an issue that I haven't seen deeply discussed here.

You're entitled to your opinion, and I can respectfully disagree and banter.  But coming in as a knowledgeable professional on a subject such as this makes my cynicism radar go off.

Your opinion.  I get it.

 

I can't speak for OP's intentions. However, I can speak to what I think his intentions were. 

Whether on DCP or elsewhere, there IS an undeniable sentiment that the judges are in bed with certain corps, particularly the Blue Devils. This sentiment was at its peak in 2009-2012. And it still exists now, just check out the 2015 finals thread. 

Whether you want to be a pedant about whether this qualifies as a "conspiracy," I honestly couldn't give two sh*ts about that, but I do think there is a general sentiment that the judges are getting it wrong often, and that these errors are purposeful rather than on accident. 

I attribute that to a misunderstanding on the way the sheets and the judges work, or just pure ignorance in general. Just take a look at @ContraFart's complaints in this thread regarding the point swing in the colorguard caption. One poster actually does some research (thanks @Chief Guns) and finds that the Devils actually led in that caption most of the season, and the complaining poster immediately shut up about it. 

In the same vein, I think Machina is just trying to provide some perspective and insight so that there is a little less ignorance or misunderstandings regarding judging. 

But yes, no matter what, people will doubt a judge's scores due to person disagreements on what should be rewarded.