Cappybara Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 20 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said: SCV's success last year was not based on one change. One person cannot bring you a championship. It takes a team. SCV started acquiring the pieces of that team in 2008. Of course, Gaines is a huge asset, but their staff is full of assets who contributed equally to their success. SCV rejoined the top 5 (right where Boston is now) in 2009. It wasn't until 2017 that they placed top 3. It's great that many on Boston's staff have had championship success, but they haven't had it together - as one unit. You think Boston's got the show this year. I think Crown has the show this year. Others think Cavies do. Others think Bloo does. We all know BD does. Vanguard probably does. There's not enough room in the top 3, 4 or 5 for all of them. SCV has had Shaw, Rennick, and a host of excellent instructional staff that kept them in the 4-5th place range. The game changer? Gaines. I'm not saying their championship was solely him but it certainly wouldn't have happened without him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Just now, queenanne_1536 said: Yes, it happened in 1990, 2015 and 2018. For sure. There may have been more, but two big ones recently. I loved Bluecoats show last year. I've loved all their shows since 2014. I am not worried about them dropping in the least. They are a championship caliber corps and have been so since 2014. Yes, I do think they were in 2017. There were issues with that show, but they still had championship caliber membership in their ranks, and I quite liked that show. BD's history is full of 1st place caliber shows that were 3rd or 4th (usually 2nd). Their shows from the early through mid 90's are still some of the most outstanding ensemble music performances ever (including shows today) in my book. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, cfirwin3 said: Based on nothing... I think Crown will be technically more formidable than that. I would be surprised if they aren't winning a caption or two on opening night. That's really the trouble with Bluecoats... is that they have only ever really claimed championship fame on GE. Boston can say more than that (from last year) in objective, technical captions (even though they have not won a championship). For Bluecoats to be as competitive as you have there (and I certainly hope they can be), they really, really need to win some other technical captions. I think Crown is going to be more technically/musically competitive this year... merely as a reaction to the past few times out. I too think Crown is going to be better this year. Last year, I felt 10 corps in finals had better designed shows than Crown. It was sheer talent that kept them in the top 5. I don't see why they wouldn't have the same level of talent this year. The product this year is exceptional better than last year. I think they will fare very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: BD's history is full of 1st place caliber shows that were 3rd or 4th (usually 2nd). Their shows from the early through mid 90's are still some of the most outstanding ensemble music performances ever (including shows today) in my book. Yeah, 1991. Hello! So amazing. What a ensemble and brass performance there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn426 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 55 minutes ago, Ghost said: You mentioned M. Gaines later in your post about their great run in the early 2000's so that goes against your thoughts above. Their music was not very difficult and Gaines kept writing great drill. Garfield had a three out of four run in the 80's without re-inventing themselves. It took a few years for the other corps to get closer to what Zingali was doing. The BD have had some great stretches of first/seconds by just having their three sections executing better than the other corps with better shows. Those two era's you mentioned are the results of ground-breaking advancements in Design that other corps could not match. Both Zingali and Gaines re-invented what could be done with Drill on the field. Zingali with asymmetrical designs and Gaines with the use of Pyware that allowed for complex Drill designs and Original music that fit the Visual idea, instead of the opposite. Paradigm Shifts. changes so fundamental that it cannot be easily duplicated without a very good understanding of it. I'd say one of those has happened once every 20 years. BD has dominated DCI since 2007, It goes without saying that they have something figured out in terms of Designs that continues to keep them on top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Cappybara said: SCV has had Shaw, Rennick, and a host of excellent instructional staff that kept them in the 4-5th place range. The game changer? Gaines. I'm not saying their championship was solely him but it certainly wouldn't have happened without him. Yes, Gaines was a critical component. He's an absolute genius. No one is denying that. He was a key player in Vanguard's success the last to years. No one is denying any of this. But, he's not the end all, be all, however. He's not the only reason they won the championship. Yes, they were in the 4-5th place range, but particularly in 2013 and 2014 they were a breath away from a top 3 finish. In 2015, their design was elevated to that of a corps that was trying to win, not a corps that was trying to place 4th or 5th. It didn't work out for them, but it was one of those "take a step back before you can move forward" years. Gaines was a great acquisition, but they couldn't have achieved 2017 and 2018 without the rest of their star team. All that said, Gaines is the first person I would want on my team, but I would then need to fill it with other stars that line the top corps staffing ranks. Edited June 19, 2019 by queenanne_1536 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: Yeah, 1991. Hello! So amazing. What a ensemble and brass performance there. 1993 stands out for me as the absolute best for BD (That's my personal perception). The solo features and drawn out ensemble moments that year were deeply emotive. Edited June 19, 2019 by cfirwin3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Just now, cfirwin3 said: 1993 stands out for me as the absolute best for them (That's my person perception). The solo features and drawn out ensemble moments that year were deeply emotive. I almost mentioned 1993 as well. 1991 BD is one of my favorite BD shows too, but yes 1993 was amazing from a musical performance standpoint as well. Some were surprised by their dominance in 1994. I wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 54 minutes ago, EDAVE said: It is as simple as this. BD consistency is due to their ability to replace exiting talent with equal incoming talent. These corps that dropped to 4th/5th the year after winning did not. Yeah definitely has nothing to do with the staff that's been together for a couple decades 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: Yes, Gaines was a critical component. He's an absolute genius. No one is denying that. He was a key player in Vanguard's success the last to years. No one is denying any of this. But, he's not the end all, be all, however. Agree. People must remember SCV won high brass and high percussion. That contributed to the win as much as anything else. They won high guard the year before, so the guard program has jumped into contention each year as well. That helps too. And they are marching fantastic. Winning takes strong caption scores in every area, not just GE or visual design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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