Incognito365 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, ThePlanets said: True but Boston has been in the 6-12 loop for many years with BK...which is why I didn't quote previous to 2007 for Crown. It's very hard to crack the top 6 which they did 2 years ago- and it wasn't just because other corps were having down years. Boston has made the staffing changes to move up and they have 2 years of working together and member recruitment under their belts. While BK is one of my favorite corps they haven't made the staffing changes to make a run for a medal. Sure, they have 2 years of working together, but those 2 years were the same show design and this year is no exception. Crown, Bluecoats, and Vanguard had to take risks to win, in order to beat the Blue Devils. Where's the risk in this show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, ThePlanets said: True but Boston has been in the 6-12 loop for many years with BK...which is why I didn't quote previous to 2007 for Crown. It's very hard to crack the top 6 which they did 2 years ago- and it wasn't just because other corps were having down years. Boston has made the staffing changes to move up and they have 2 years of working together and member recruitment under their belts. While BK is one of my favorite corps they haven't made the staffing changes to make a run for a medal. I don't think anyone is saying the only reason Boston moved up was because other corps were having down years. Those other corps having weaknesses absolutely helped their rise. Two years of working together isn't much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Incognito365 said: Sure, they have 2 years of working together, but those 2 years were the same show design and this year is no exception. Crown, Bluecoats, and Vanguard had to take risks to win, in order to beat the Blue Devils. Where's the risk in this show? I haven't seen the show this year, but I would agree that 2016 and 2017 were very very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn426 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, queenanne_1536 said: SCV's success last year was not based on one change. One person cannot bring you a championship. It takes a team. SCV started acquiring the pieces of that team in 2008. Of course, Gaines is a huge asset, but their staff is full of assets who contributed equally to their success. SCV rejoined the top 5 (right where Boston is now) in 2009. It wasn't until 2017 that they placed top 3. It's great that many on Boston's staff have had championship success, but they haven't had it together - as one unit. You think Boston's got the show this year. I think Crown has the show this year. Others think Cavies do. Others think Bloo does. We all know BD does. Vanguard probably does. There's not enough room in the top 3, 4 or 5 for all of them. When it's Michael Gaines, yes it can. He troubleshoots design-flaws in design meetings. Ideas are brought to the table and he can pick it apart from a judges point of view to the point that only ideas that are properly fleshed out make it to the field. HE has designed at the top of the DCI, WGI activity for decades. And would probably know all of the judges on a personal level, He would know what is "On the Horizon" And in this activity that is the single most important thing you can have. Without Michael Gaines SCV does not medal the last two years and they certainly don't win last year. And I saw Crown's show and we have a difference in opinion, not the way the hornline is performing at this moment. And what is Crown without its hornline?💣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito365 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: I've only heard BAC's standstill and I liked what I heard. They sounded great - but all the top corps sound great standing still. I will reserve judgement on the visual design until I see it. But you have illustrated my point exactly. It took Crown, Bluecoats, and Vanguard a decade each to get there, and they all took risks to do it. I think people expecting that for Boston this year may be only setting themselves up to be disappointed. BD has placed in the top 2 every year starting in 2007. Will they fall out? Yes, of course. Will it be this year? Who knows. Vanguard donated the captions at finals last year in a way no corps other than BD has done since 2005. That leads me to believe Vanguard will join BD in the top 2. That leaves one spot. I've seen Crown. I have no doubt they will be vying for a top 3 finish. Then we have Bluecoats. Then we have Cavaliers. So between many of us we have six corps that are all going to place in the top 3. Well, that can't happen, so most of us are wrong. I'll place my bets on BD and SCV being joined either by Bluecoats or Crown in that top 3. I've seen the show on the field. That's why I feel so strongly in my opinion. Risks must be taken, and they are however not. Blue Devils will eventually fall out, and this very well could be the year, but I don't think it's going to be Boston who does it if it happens this year. It's going to be Crown, Bluecoats, and Vanguard. As for the Cavaliers, I hope they do make a come back, but they were around a point behind Boston last season, and unless they figure out their visual design issues and bring up those GE and visual scores, I don't see that happening either. I could be wrong though, hopefully they deter from last years style as it reminded me of a bottom 6 BOA show, but the corps performed the hell out of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito365 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Glenn426 said: And I saw Crown's show and we have a difference in opinion, not the way the hornline is performing at this moment. And what is Crown without its hornline?💣 Top 4 in GE. Top 4 in Visual. Top 3 in Percussion. But that's just going bassed off of last year. Let's play your game though! What is SCV without Michael Gaines? 4th place or lower. What is Boston without their new staff? 12th place. Isn't so nice when you turn it around, is it? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Glenn426 said: When it's Michael Gaines, yes it can. He troubleshoots design-flaws in design meetings. Ideas are brought to the table and he can pick it apart from a judges point of view to the point that only ideas that are properly fleshed out make it to the field. HE has designed at the top of the DCI, WGI activity for decades. And would probably know all of the judges on a personal level, He would know what is "On the Horizon" And in this activity that is the single most important thing you can have. Without Michael Gaines SCV does not medal the last two years and they certainly don't win last year. And I saw Crown's show and we have a difference in opinion, not the way the hornline is performing at this moment. And what is Crown without its hornline?💣 While most of what you said about Gaines is true, one person does not make or break the success of a corps. It takes a team. You have no way of knowing where SCV would have or would not have placed in 2017 or 2018 without Gaines because they weren't without Gaines. I'll end by saying I hope you're not judging the quality (or lack of quality) of Crown's hornline based on an iPhone video. Edited June 18, 2019 by queenanne_1536 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: I don't think anyone is saying the only reason Boston moved up was because other corps were having down years. Those other corps having weaknesses absolutely helped their rise. Two years of working together isn't much. it's not really "two years" the music caption guys worked together for a long time at Cadets and the visual/drill guy used to be at Cadets with them prior to Crown small world Boston WILL move up this year. I think the question is 4th or 3rd? I think 4th if I have to guess. SCV/BD/Coats are probably the top 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn426 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, queenanne_1536 said: While most of what you said about Gaines is true, one person does not make or break the success of a corps. It takes a team. You have no way of knowing where SCV would have placed in 2017 or 2018 without Gaines because they weren't without Gaines. I'll end by saying I hope you're not judging the quality (or lack of quality) of Crown's hornline based on an iPhone video. Doesn't take much to hear consistent Release errors, blend issues, Feet in the Horns while on the move. Not things you'd associate with a Crown hornline. Hell like incognito said they are taking 'Risks this year by making them move and march. Something that as a fan of DCI (without-bias) you'd know is not necessary to create effect (BD) And yes Gaines cant do everything, but everything that gets on the field is going through a Michael Gaines filter and that filter sure did make a difference with the same exact staff from one year to the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppycock Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, George Dixon said: it's not really "two years" the music caption guys worked together for a long time at Cadets and the visual/drill guy used to be at Cadets with them prior to Crown small world Boston WILL move up this year. I think the question is 4th or 3rd? I think 4th if I have to guess. SCV/BD/Coats are probably the top 3 Wouldn’t surprise me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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