Bluzes Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Couldn’t help noticing the horn condition either. I know of Alumni type corps that would not go out in public with horns looking like that. To be honest I already knew that there are some dented horns and other defects with equipment. Read the Pioneer ducktape story it shouldn't have been a shock. Like Jubal showed us a picture is worth a thousand words. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bluzes said: To be honest I already knew that there are some dented horns and other defects with equipment. Read the Pioneer ducktape story it shouldn't have been a shock. Like Jubal showed us a picture is worth a thousand words. Dents, dings and other problems go with the territory. But the pic on the fund me page just really stood out. Especially with the proud look on the young mans face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: What we see here is that dci as an organization needs to totally overhaul itself You’re correct, but I would add a cautionary note. Over the years in serious matters and somewhat smaller matters, there is an attitude that there should be a certain rule, but it does not apply in this situation. An example, a corps this Spring got flack about hiring an employee with serious issues. We see a bad hire in a second situation (if Reddit and info from the corps is to be believed) and it could be true of a third corps. It would not surprise me if each director who has made a questionable hire would not support rigorous background checks as a policy, but believes their situation is unique. “There is the rule but we are the exception” is pretty common in our world and we see it in drum corps. I never worked for any of the drum corps. I only know one director well, a few others by name, but others only though their FB pages, their reputations, and what we see on the field. I believe most want the best and are in drum corps for the right reasons. That being said, some have serious blind spots and where more than a few are not only colleagues but friends, I’m not sure how objective they’d be. If DCI is to be overhauled or even just tweaked, we need to see more than just corps directors at the table, and outside does not mean BOA and WGI since so many are involved in all three. College athletic directors, people from schools of education, education, trainers, doctors, nurses, non profit experts—these folks with no direct ties should be involved too. Drum corps is a great activity. So too are religious organizations, scouting, the Y and Boys and Girls Clubs, private schools are wonderful too, and all have faced these issues, and in some cases where things from the past are revealed, face them over and over. Lots of folks understand, will not point fingers when revealing what needs to be changed, and would love to help. Directors need to be at the table but other people do too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluzes Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Fred Windish said: The standards would include not just health and safety protections for members, but also demonstrated financial and legal stability. That standard today is biased, holistic rather than wholistic and this time, not down-side-up. If finances are not distributed equally the health & safety protections don't apply equally or the poor kids are marching with the broken horns. Are the top corps that self-serving, non-caring, anti-competitive that staying on top means more than anything else? Is the structure generating anything more than envy and jealousy? Is dci heading down the path of the NFL finding ways to alienate their most loyal fan base? Edited August 25, 2018 by Bluzes typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 23 hours ago, Bluzes said: Is SoundSport a safe space for Pioneer to rebuild.? A small unit on the best bus, on their best behavior and enough peanut butter on board. Easier to monitor how the kids are doing. A way back into dci. Concerned alumni could help fill the ranks of a supporting Parade Corps. Could keep the Pioneer lights on if that is the objective. Knowing the objective is key to our discussion. Hopefully, that will begin to work itself out. I don’t see where there would be objections to Pioneer in SoundSport and think it would be an excellent venue For reintroduction if Pioneer is to compete in 2020. Competing and performing could be different matters. Some groups do just perform, and it would not be unreasonable for exhibition only. I was at SoundSport and DrumLine Battle for nearly the entire event this past year. It’s well attended and people are there to enjoy themselves so it would be a great possibility for Pioneer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluzes Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, Bluzes said: That standard today is biased I fully realize that equalling the performance stipend is not a large part of the finances. That it is the corps ability to raise funds for itself that puts a winner on the field. Let that alone be the difference. Why do the top eight need to eat into fiances that would make a larger impact for the other corps? If it does not amount to much? Is BD's 11 or so minutes they spend on the field worth more than Jersey Surfs? How does that compute in our down-side-up world? How come having a non-gender-specific show means more than living with an unfair capitalistic money system. Does social justice issues ever relate into anything substantial or do they only kick in 50 years from now? Why do we pay over 6 bills to go to finals so the Cadets get more of it than the Troopers. 11or so is 11 or so but not at dci. Have any dci stopwatches for sale are more expensive models used later in the show. Other sports are driving fans away for many reasons. Baseball to me is looking at a box score and visualize the game the NFL is non-existent to me. I just hope dci does not become that, looking at a recap now and then to see nothing has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Bluzes said: I fully realize that equalling the performance stipend is not a large part of the finances. That it is the corps ability to raise funds for itself that puts a winner on the field. Let that alone be the difference. Why do the top eight need to eat into fiances that would make a larger impact for the other corps? If it does not amount to much? Is BD's 11 or so minutes they spend on the field worth more than Jersey Surfs? How does that compute in our down-side-up world? How come having a non-gender-specific show means more than living with an unfair capitalistic money system. Does social justice issues ever relate into anything substantial or do they only kick in 50 years from now? Why do we pay over 6 bills to go to finals so the Cadets get more of it than the Troopers. 11or so is 11 or so but not at dci. Have any dci stopwatches for sale are more expensive models used later in the show. Other sports are driving fans away for many reasons. Baseball to me is looking at a box score and visualize the game the NFL is non-existent to me. I just hope dci does not become that, looking at a recap now and then to see nothing has changed. 3 3 Maybe ask those who run to see those to 8 or whatever and how many don't even show for many of those lower corps. There is a clear difference no matter what some want to say. I have constantly seen in on tour for decades. When people talk about OC ( which improved maybe a bit ) people need to put their money where their mouth is and get your axxes in seats to make a difference. This is strictly about money NOT about safety...safety for ALL is needed, top to bottom, no excuses. If you can't provide that you should NOT be in this business period. No debate, no discussion, no excuse. Edited August 25, 2018 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Tim K said: You’re correct, but I would add a cautionary note. Over the years in serious matters and somewhat smaller matters, there is an attitude that there should be a certain rule, but it does not apply in this situation. An example, a corps this Spring got flack about hiring an employee with serious issues. We see a bad hire in a second situation (if Reddit and info from the corps is to be believed) and it could be true of a third corps. It would not surprise me if each director who has made a questionable hire would not support rigorous background checks as a policy, but believes their situation is unique. “There is the rule but we are the exception” is pretty common in our world and we see it in drum corps. I never worked for any of the drum corps. I only know one director well, a few others by name, but others only though their FB pages, their reputations, and what we see on the field. I believe most want the best and are in drum corps for the right reasons. That being said, some have serious blind spots and where more than a few are not only colleagues but friends, I’m not sure how objective they’d be. If DCI is to be overhauled or even just tweaked, we need to see more than just corps directors at the table, and outside does not mean BOA and WGI since so many are involved in all three. College athletic directors, people from schools of education, education, trainers, doctors, nurses, non profit experts—these folks with no direct ties should be involved too. Drum corps is a great activity. So too are religious organizations, scouting, the Y and Boys and Girls Clubs, private schools are wonderful too, and all have faced these issues, and in some cases where things from the past are revealed, face them over and over. Lots of folks understand, will not point fingers when revealing what needs to be changed, and would love to help. Directors need to be at the table but other people do too. I agree with you 1000000% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluzes Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 25 minutes ago, Tim K said: I don’t see where there would be objections to Pioneer in SoundSport and think it would be an excellent venue For reintroduction Lets only hope that SS or something similar is on Pioneers radar. It's sure a time for them to find out who their friends really are. The alumn can rush in be part of the SoundSport team and Parade Corps to really put things back together. Help build a base of youngsters for a near-term return. It's all in their court how they handle adversity ime will tell. I think they have some cheerleaders here. 1 minute ago, GUARDLING said: Maybe ask those who run to see those to 8 or whatever and how many don't even show for many of those lower corps. There is a clear difference no matter what some want to say. I have constantly seen in on tour for decades. I knew I would hear from you on this. Great but these kids are paying for this activity, working just as hard sweating just as much but it's the man or not in the already sold seat that makes a difference? It's not a festival where the top groups reap all the awards. It's an activity for the youth to pay for and get all kinds of rewards. But not to be treated unfairly because how many eyeballs our on them. How does that affect anything except that we are playing king of the mountain? Our friends stay out in Military Park much rather listen to the corps warm-up. On Friday only came inside for the last three corps. I had fun telling their seat interlopers that the big boys are coming for their seats. They said are you sure, replied there are coming down the aisle but they usually have no idea what they're doing and may very well may turn around. Kids thought I was messing with them. It's none of anyone's business how they spend their own money. The seat is sold to do what we want with. Think I don't know the habits of dci fans. Are they any worse than the more fair and equal BOA system where parents pay for a seat just to see their kid march? Very poor reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bluzes said: Lets only hope that SS or something similar is on Pioneers radar. It's sure a time for them to find out who their friends really are. The alumn can rush in be part of the SoundSport team and Parade Corps to really put things back together. Help build a base of youngsters for a near-term return. It's all in their court how they handle adversity ime will tell. I think they have some cheerleaders here. I knew I would hear from you on this. Great but these kids are paying for this activity, working just as hard sweating just as much but it's the man or not in the already sold seat that makes a difference? It's not a festival where the top groups reap all the awards. It's an activity for the youth to pay for and get all kinds of rewards. But not to be treated unfairly because how many eyeballs our on them. How does that affect anything except that we are playing king of the mountain? Our friends stay out in Military Park much rather listen to the corps warm-up. On Friday only came inside for the last three corps. I had fun telling their seat interlopers that the big boys are coming for their seats. They said are you sure, replied there are coming down the aisle but they usually have no idea what they're doing and may very well may turn around. Kids thought I was messing with them. It's none of anyone's business how they spend their own money. The seat is sold to do what we want with. Think I don't know the habits of dci fans. Are they any worse than the more fair and equal BOA system where parents pay for a seat just to see their kid march? Very poor reasoning. I went in early Thursday, left for a while, came back in later. Friday, came in for what I missed Thursday to the end. Saturday, came in for the entire show. That’s a lot of hours in that place sitting in that seat. My back was actually a little sore on Sunday when I got home. I just don’t sit that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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