YEA suspends operations of Cadets 2 and Lays off 9 Employees

[garfield]

4 hours ago, George Dixon said:

where are you getting the $270,000 savings figure from? for 9 folks? Or for that matter the $30,000 average salary. I thought I was low balling it :)

and personally I agree with others in this thread - I don't buy a deficit of C2 in the range of $300,000 annually - just using round figures and a close awareness of what they did - I would put the deficit at less than $100,000 

Did my next post answer your question?  I didn't pull these numbers out of my patootie, they came off the respective 990s.

Perhaps if, as suggested, I saw the "actual balance sheet", I'd feel differently.  But perhaps I'm working from the actual "balance sheet" (actually, the income statement).  I won't even attempt 2016s version thanks to that huge bucket of slop worth about EDIT: $2.25mm $2.9mm in YEA!s expenses; that I'd need to see the actual income statement.

I'll double check again the income and expenses attributable to the various programs.

Oh, the $30,000 average staff salary was just a hip-shot, thinking about some being part time and others just being financially abused.  If you know it to be higher, please share.

If the next post made sense, then we're quibbling about marginal numbers that won't change the conclusion that C2 had to go because it couldn't pay for itself much less the staff time/energy/resources it took to admin it.

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by garfield

[seen-it-all]

18 hours ago, karuna said:

It's a valid question.  Cadets have been leaning heavily on C² in the past few seasons.

 

Define "heavily." You've stated this often so I take it that you're "in the know" on just how heavily the Cadets have relied on C2 talent to fill their ranks in recent years. What kinds of numbers are we talking about exactly?

[garfield]

12 hours ago, George Dixon said:

I wonder if 1. Improving the USB band relationships & 2. Ability to trim YEA office staffing played more into the C2 decision than did C2s actual deficit

Even just from a $$ standpoint - eliminating 9 staff from the office is a boatload of $$ saved, much more than C2 deficit

In the 2016 990, there's simply no way to know how the itemization is broken down.  I believe the statement of Additional Information (after the primary forms, about 1/3 down into the 990, for those who care) transposes the explanation of notation (I can't imagine C2 generated $1.4mm in revenue) but, as has been pointed out, we are looking at old numbers and current income statements could show a significantly bigger imbalance.  There's $2.9mm of unattributed expenses in the '16 Form 990.  I think the IRS would love to have an explanation of that line-item's reconciliation, but maybe not.  It's just a 501c3, after all.

The 2015 version makes much more sense and may contain a few pointers to help understand 2016.

In 2015, USBands Revenue was $2,247,957 and Expenses were $1,753,649.  A profit of about $500,000

Cadets lost about $300,000, and C2 lost about $110,000 (the '16 990 shows a loss of $325m for C2 but, again, might be untrustworthy)

Oh, and Schedule L, Part IV "Business Transactions Involving Interested People" shows they paid Katie Hopkins $29,600 in 2016 so my $30m figure may be vindicated as a good guess.  (That's after paying her $40m in 2015.)

Edited December 3, 2018 by garfield

[Jeff Ream]

10 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

Well, and let's face it George, though the financial breakdown isn't very detailed I think a lot of us get the feeling from just looking at the numbers that something doesn't quite add up. A 600K deficit is a lot of money for a DCA corps which didn't travel or compete very much during the season. At least in my viewpoint from the Ancient Aliens / Illuminati private box seats (we have room BTW if any other old farts wanna join in,) it would certainly APPEAR that monies might be getting shifted around to "cover some assets" in the form of legal fees, etc. 

you have understand that the DCA model doesnt produce the revenue the DCI Model does. C2 had higher operational expenses, feeding, housing etc, and what...6-7 shows a year? Not like they were making $10k a show, so even with higher membership fees than the rest of DCA, again, the structure of YEA was C1 first...a 6 year old corps didn't have the alumni base the Big corps had. 

 

Yes, it sucks, and the longer they are gone, the harder it will be to bring them back. But given the #### storm YEA finds itself in....well as I said before, the end all be all to keeping anything alive is the Holy Name Garfield Cadets of Bergen County Sponsored by YEA from Allentown PA.

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, BigW said:

I agree from personal experience. Westshoremen 1984. Helped throw the corps together with Jim and others in 6 weeks to keep it alive, still beat 4-5 corps at prelims, had a lot of fun. It laid enough of a foundational kernel  to grow into the eventual 1996 DCA Championship.

 

The second you go inactive... it just becomes a lot harder to get the momentum to return. Case Study... Glassmen.

DCA is the only place it's easier, and even then it's not easy...but a helluva lot easier than DCI World Class

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, garfield said:

Did my next post answer your question?  I didn't pull these numbers out of my patootie, they came off the respective 990s.

Perhaps if, as suggested, I saw the "actual balance sheet", I'd feel differently.  But perhaps I'm working from the actual "balance sheet" (actually, the income statement).  I won't even attempt 2016s version thanks to that huge bucket of slop worth about EDIT: $2.25mm $2.9mm in YEA!s expenses; that I'd need to see the actual income statement.

I'll double check again the income and expenses attributable to the various programs.

Oh, the $30,000 average staff salary was just a hip-shot, thinking about some being part time and others just being financially abused.  If you know it to be higher, please share.

If the next post made sense, then we're quibbling about marginal numbers that won't change the conclusion that C2 had to go because it couldn't pay for itself much less the staff time/energy/resources it took to admin it.

 

salary varied on position and full time or not...or how young eager and gullible you were to work there.

[Tim K]

5 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

We could go on and on with this list....  Bloo managed to come back a couple of times, I believe but that’s the exception, not the rule.  And Troop had a year off, too. 

I’m relying on my memory of the Legacy DVD’s and memories of old issues of DCW and DCN, but Bluecoats  were in their early years and dynamic leaders and smart business folks got involved, and in the case of Troopers, they were put on leave, they did not voluntarily take a hiatus. While what I am seeing now by YEA is not good news, it is showing fiscal responsibility. They are not taking the risk of having what happened to Troopers happen to them, or worse, pretending no crisis exists.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Tim K

[Fran Haring]

16 hours ago, Tim K said:

I don’t think I have ever seen stats of the age of C2 members, but while it had many high school students, was it a majority? The only marching member of C2 I knew at the time he marched with them was in high school, but those I’ve talked to at shows were older. This is hardly anything more than anecdotal, but given the number of competitors in US bands, i’m not sure it would have a huge impact on directors opinions.

Just from observing them since 2012.... perhaps up closer than some folks posting here... it seems the mix was high-school and college kids, with some early 20-somethings, and on several occasions, people way over the self-imposed "upper age limit" of 23 or 25 the corps had.

[Fran Haring]

4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

Yes, it sucks, and the longer they are gone, the harder it will be to bring them back. But given the #### storm YEA finds itself in....well as I said before, the end all be all to keeping anything alive is the Holy Name Garfield Cadets of Bergen County Sponsored by YEA from Allentown PA.

Like the corps' song/motto says... "For Holy Name Shall Always Be." 

Not "For Holy Name2 Shall Always Be." 

[BigW]

5 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

DCA is the only place it's easier, and even then it's not easy...but a helluva lot easier than DCI World Class

Very true, Jeff. A lot less money for DCA, also a lot easier to make finals with a solid product, where a solid product in WC might get you 15th.