George Dixon Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) The Q? posed was "will this hurt recruitment"? It seems that any sign of financial difficulty or organization instability won't help recruitment that's for sure... With a promising initial return of brass members from 2018 and an influx of techs/designers on both the guard and percussion teams (where they recruit lots of members directly from band & indoor programs they work with) 2018 should be "ok" - show design and instructional quality will drive things beyond that. Put a good program on the field for 2019 and improve a spot or two in a couple captions (guard and drums seem most likely) and then they have something to build upon in 2020 I really think with careful management the organization (& Cadets) can be in a solid place organizationally and competitively within five seasons - last year being #1 Members being treated well, kept happy and made successful is job number 1, 2 & 3 IMO Edited December 2, 2018 by George Dixon 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaklefthand4ever Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 7 hours ago, BigW said: I wished that person and I wish everyone out there that whatever happens, they land in some place where they'll feel wanted and love their experience And that is the key. That should be the goal first for every member of ANY corps. There are plenty of open spots within DCA and DCI between Open and World Class for folks to have a great experience. It doesn't make it any less sad that C2 is not going to be active (at least for now,) but here's hoping that they come back stronger than ever and financially stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaklefthand4ever Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: you pull C1, you kill it forever. Eventually the C2 stuff will blow over. You pull C1 out, and the feeding frenzy really comes alive. I would agree 110%. Even if it where to be financially a smart move, it isn't feasible from a recruiting perspective. I can't think of many folks of marching age (DCI not DCA) that would come flocking to a corps which had just come off of a hiatus like that. People want to march somewhere that they think they'll have a chance at being competitive and a corps just coming out of a missed season isn't going to look very appetizing. .10 that someone now says "Well....if it were Star, they would come..." o_O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 9 hours ago, karuna said: It's a valid question. Cadets have been leaning heavily on C2 in the past few seasons . While those kids (most likely) will be available this year, next season they most likely won't. Another interesting question: where do those C2 kids go? Do they march DCA at all or just look to audition in Open Class/ Lower Tier World class corps? If YEA were really interested in saving some dollars, they should have kept C2 and put Cadets on a one year hiatus. That would save far more dollars in a single season than 3 seasons of C2 suspension and would have kept that recruiting base alive. Good thing you're not on the Cadets BOD. The negativity and cynicism about all the good and talented peope trying to keep the Cadets alive is plain absurd! Thank you to the current leadership at the Cadets for your commitment to the corps in these difficult times. It must be discouraging to read the cynicism and almost constant criticism from all the armchair quarterbacks. A little positivity and encouragement would probably be a welcomed relief to the current Cadets lesdership! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaklefthand4ever Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 47 minutes ago, George Dixon said: I wonder if 1. Improving the USB band relationships & 2. Ability to trim YEA office staffing played more into the C2 decision than did C2s actual deficit Even just from a $$ standpoint - eliminating 9 staff from the office is a boatload of $$ saved, much more than C2 deficit Well, and let's face it George, though the financial breakdown isn't very detailed I think a lot of us get the feeling from just looking at the numbers that something doesn't quite add up. A 600K deficit is a lot of money for a DCA corps which didn't travel or compete very much during the season. At least in my viewpoint from the Ancient Aliens / Illuminati private box seats (we have room BTW if any other old farts wanna join in,) it would certainly APPEAR that monies might be getting shifted around to "cover some assets" in the form of legal fees, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 hour ago, karuna said: It's the infamous rock and hard place. Pull C2 (for how many years?) and destroy what has become a large part of your recruiting base. Significantly less talent flows into corps. Donations sag because of downward placement. Death spiral of placement and donations. Pull C1 for a year and risk armageddon but put your financial house in order tout suite. Cadets are (by a huge margin) the biggest expense of YEA. It bleeds every other program dry every year. Talent from C2 will still be there when you return after a season. Would the alums really bolt? Not sure that's true now. They might rally to the cause now that Hopmeister is out of the picture. I'm not sure which I'd chose -- neither are very attractive options. But make no mistake -- Cadets have relied on that C2 talent for several years now. Pulling that out will have an impact in 2020 and beyond. Sorry, karuna, but, besides being the "Debbie-Downer" that Dans describes above, I'm going to suggest that your business logic is flawed and, whether or not you agree, the numbers don't back up your contention of getting their "financial house in order" at all, much less tout-suite. The 2016 990 is a mess because the accountant, apparently, couldn't figure out what GH was doing, either, and dumped a whole bunch of expenses into combined buckets that include all of YEA!'s expenses. But looking at the 2015 version provides clues that suggest the math does not support significant savings by suspending Cadets. Revenue directly attributed to Cadets in 2015 started with "Tour/Camp/Training fees" of $986m (m=thousands, mm=millions). Then add in "Program Sponsorship Income" of $595m which is, most likely, equip, unis, and other "in-kind" support for, primarily, Cadets. Lastly, throw in "Appearance Fees" of $252m and just "rough" income attributed to Cadets totals over $1.8mm. Most of that income will cease if Cadets are suspended. Expenses directly attributable to NOT USBands includes rehearsal and tour expense of $491m, transportation expense of $456m and, even if we attribute ALL of the "other expenses" of Program Service to the Cadets (and ignore C2's), it still totals just over $1.5mm. So, it appears that Cadets "drain" on YEA!'s resources is much less significant than the income that program brings in (even if these numbers don't add up and 2018's numbers will probably look much different). Then, when you add in the negative affect that closing down Cadets would have on the brand and primary public face of the org, I think that the YEA! leadership did exactly the right thing. IMO, and only mine, if USBands are the pee-wee leagues, and C2 was the minor league, if YEA! doesn't have any representation in the "Major League", then what's the point? They COULD run, profitably it appears, both USBands and C2, but cross-platform sponsorships will be made much more difficult without Cadets. Too much talent, organizational, staff, volunteer, and MM would be squandered for the benefit of a few expenses that would likely be dwarfed by the reduction of income from Cadets, it's legacy, and it's future prospects. Give the new team a chance to show. It was a tough decision, and a correct one, IMO from safely behind my keyboard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said: I would agree 110%. Even if it where to be financially a smart move, it isn't feasible from a recruiting perspective. I can't think of many folks of marching age (DCI not DCA) that would come flocking to a corps which had just come off of a hiatus like that. People want to march somewhere that they think they'll have a chance at being competitive and a corps just coming out of a missed season isn't going to look very appetizing. .10 that someone now says "Well....if it were Star, they would come..." o_O Bruckner's "Competitive Inertia" theory would agree with you. Edited December 2, 2018 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 hour ago, George Dixon said: I wonder if 1. Improving the USB band relationships & 2. Ability to trim YEA office staffing played more into the C2 decision than did C2s actual deficit Even just from a $$ standpoint - eliminating 9 staff from the office is a boatload of $$ saved, much more than C2 deficit IDK, my understanding is that he was cheaper than dirt and both abused office staff and underpaid them. At $30m/year, $270m in staff savings is icing on top of the annual sink of C2 because, presumable, much cross-platform work took place between the three divisions of YEA!. i.e. the Org got much more "return" from these staff than just what was attributable to their C2 efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said: I would agree 110%. Even if it where to be financially a smart move, it isn't feasible from a recruiting perspective. I can't think of many folks of marching age (DCI not DCA) that would come flocking to a corps which had just come off of a hiatus like that. People want to march somewhere that they think they'll have a chance at being competitive and a corps just coming out of a missed season isn't going to look very appetizing. .10 that someone now says "Well....if it were Star, they would come..." o_O And keep in my a lot of dci’ers who have posted here said they could only do DCI one season. So why spend that one year rebuilding a corps for the same amount of dues, etc a Finalist would cost. source: old threads of mine asking why members march where they march Edited December 2, 2018 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 25 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said: Well, and let's face it George, though the financial breakdown isn't very detailed I think a lot of us get the feeling from just looking at the numbers that something doesn't quite add up. A 600K deficit is a lot of money for a DCA corps which didn't travel or compete very much during the season. At least in my viewpoint from the Ancient Aliens / Illuminati private box seats (we have room BTW if any other old farts wanna join in,) it would certainly APPEAR that monies might be getting shifted around to "cover some assets" in the form of legal fees, etc. Again, use caution in attributing the $600m deficit to C2, or any one thing, frankly, because they didn't detail it in the release. But the coincidence of the potential liability of the $ owed GH and the deficit is hard to ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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