“Failure to Protect”

[jeffmolnar]

4 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

Did you even read what I wrote?

Yeah. You believe what Fred Morrison did was bad, but then justified his continued employment by referencing the law.

6 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

Did you even read what I wrote?

That is all?  Really?

You have no issues with the Crossmen board of directors?

huh? Of course they should resign as well, they're clearly rubber stampers for Morrison. The BoD wasn't who you were talking about in that post though.

[Jeff Ream]

6 hours ago, jeffmolnar said:

Getting banned.

Sexual assault isn't something you're allowed to agree with. Certain disgusting posters on here should've been gone a while ago.

i don't do moderation here, but on the Facebook page. Sadly, when you read the guidelines, it's a very fine line to walk, and while enablers/excuse makers annoy the hell out of me, they are entitled to their say. It's just like on Facebook or Twitter if you disagree with someone's political views, regardless of how extreme, you can either speak your mind, ignore, or block

[Jeff Ream]

6 hours ago, garfield said:

As a good friend said to me and I kind of agree with:  "I prefer to be stealthy and under the radar, and deadly effective".  Suits my style better than swinging around a pitchfork.

Besides, under the circumstances of this organization, talking to the right people can seem difficult and confusing and lends itself well to delays from process mistakes, like contacting the wrong people first.  I don't like process delays.

stealthy under the radar has allowed this problem to fester for decades. 

[HockeyDad]

38 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

You (and a few others) seem sincerely at a loss to explain this, so I will try once more to answer your question.

(Disclaimer - in this post, I will present views that are not my own, with which I vehemently disagree.  I will try to mark each such view with a .  It is an ugly message - try not to shoot the messenger.)

Some people have a large capacity for forgiveness, and a belief in "second chances", whether via personal or religious convictions.  Our society as a whole believes, to some extent, in learning from mistakes and the possibility of rehabilitation.  If we are to be intellectually honest, we must acknowledge this much.

Taken to enough of an extreme, there are people who extend these concepts to sex offenders .  The article that spawned this thread documents this as it pertains to Joel Moody:

But the people at Teal Sound and Crossmen who condoned such hiring are not personally guilty of abuse, but rather, questionable  judgment.  

(Personally, I would say unacceptably bad judgment, on several levels.  The rates of recidivism for sexual offenses suggest that prevention should take priority over "second chances".  To protect the vulnerable, there should be no "second chances" with youth groups.  And of all youth groups, the drum corps activity with its touring and thinner infrastructure is the last place on earth that should ever be used for such "second chances".  No amount of good intentions, or planned oversight, would make this okay with me.  But I had no vote in this process.)

Fact is, back in 2012, Fred Morrison could have turned the Crossmen into his own personal sex offender work-release program .  It certainly would be outside of the mission of the Crossmen, which is to serve youth, not sex offenders.  But it was not illegal , and DCI did not have a policy to prevent it .  Even now, written policy is too vague  to spell out an absolute prohibition on hiring sex offenders.  You must do background checking, but there is no guidance on what to do with the results .  It may be "inconsistent with DCI values", but it may still be possible to hire sex offenders , knowingly .  That needs to change, by next month.

I totally understand your concerns about Fred Morrison.  I share them.  But here is the thing.  In America, we try to coexist with people of diverse, sometimes opposing personal/religious views.  The way we do it is by agreeing to abide by a common set of rules.  Not everyone likes every rule, but no one gets to ignore a rule just because they dislike it.  Many of us go through our daily lives, routinely complying with rules that we do not personally agree with, in the interest of maintaining a civil society.  Taxes, speed limits, airport security, more taxes... the list goes on.

Our state/federal laws, and the rules/policies/procedures of DCI, are the rules people must abide by to work in the drum corps activity.  Many of the important rules we are most concerned with have just been instituted recently (or need to be, and hopefully will be next month).  If anyone cannot bring themselves to put personal or religious sentiment aside to comply with these rules, they should resign from all positions of responsibility in the drum corps activity.

If I believed that Fred Morrison was going to repeat this kind of behavior, I would be right there with you demanding his resignation/firing.  But I would rather that DCI establish policy that stops ALL the Fred Morrisons from doing that, forevermore.

Thank you for taking the time to write a thorough response that was logical and well presented. I agree with a lot of what you say, and disagree in part. And that’s okay. I personally think that we don’t know what Morrison was thinking concerning bringing Moody on board. All I know is what he did. And his behavior towards his staff afterwards when a few of them brought concerns forward about Moody. Even if, in the best case, this was a honest mistake by a man (Morrison) with a heart of gold who was “giving a guy a second chance,” I do not agree in this particular case (bringing a guy with that kind of background onto the staff of a youth activity where knowingly there will be little oversight and plenty of opportunities to get himself in trouble again) that you can just say I’m sorry, shouldn’t have done that, and get a do-over. I think it’s time to say, sorry, Fred, this is just something where you only get one strike, and it’s time for you to be gone. 

Anyway, that’s my view. 

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, MikeD said:

That was also the norm here in NJ education hiring until the new "Don't pass the trash" law was implemented just this year. Applicants must sign that they agree to be checked going back 20 years, and districts must disclose anything they know.

even in the corporate world, not just scholastic. Why? Someone with an ax to grind tells a potential employer their thoughts, person gets denied the job, boom lawsuits galore.

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

You (and a few others) seem sincerely at a loss to explain this, so I will try once more to answer your question.

(Disclaimer - in this post, I will present views that are not my own, with which I vehemently disagree.  I will try to mark each such view with a .  It is an ugly message - try not to shoot the messenger.)

Some people have a large capacity for forgiveness, and a belief in "second chances", whether via personal or religious convictions.  Our society as a whole believes, to some extent, in learning from mistakes and the possibility of rehabilitation.  If we are to be intellectually honest, we must acknowledge this much.

Taken to enough of an extreme, there are people who extend these concepts to sex offenders .  The article that spawned this thread documents this as it pertains to Joel Moody:

But the people at Teal Sound and Crossmen who condoned such hiring are not personally guilty of abuse, but rather, questionable  judgment.  

(Personally, I would say unacceptably bad judgment, on several levels.  The rates of recidivism for sexual offenses suggest that prevention should take priority over "second chances".  To protect the vulnerable, there should be no "second chances" with youth groups.  And of all youth groups, the drum corps activity with its touring and thinner infrastructure is the last place on earth that should ever be used for such "second chances".  No amount of good intentions, or planned oversight, would make this okay with me.  But I had no vote in this process.)

Fact is, back in 2012, Fred Morrison could have turned the Crossmen into his own personal sex offender work-release program .  It certainly would be outside of the mission of the Crossmen, which is to serve youth, not sex offenders.  But it was not illegal , and DCI did not have a policy to prevent it .  Even now, written policy is too vague  to spell out an absolute prohibition on hiring sex offenders.  You must do background checking, but there is no guidance on what to do with the results .  It may be "inconsistent with DCI values", but it may still be possible to hire sex offenders , knowingly .  That needs to change, by next month.

I totally understand your concerns about Fred Morrison.  I share them.  But here is the thing.  In America, we try to coexist with people of diverse, sometimes opposing personal/religious views.  The way we do it is by agreeing to abide by a common set of rules.  Not everyone likes every rule, but no one gets to ignore a rule just because they dislike it.  Many of us go through our daily lives, routinely complying with rules that we do not personally agree with, in the interest of maintaining a civil society.  Taxes, speed limits, airport security, more taxes... the list goes on.

Our state/federal laws, and the rules/policies/procedures of DCI, are the rules people must abide by to work in the drum corps activity.  Many of the important rules we are most concerned with have just been instituted recently (or need to be, and hopefully will be next month).  If anyone cannot bring themselves to put personal or religious sentiment aside to comply with these rules, they should resign from all positions of responsibility in the drum corps activity.

If I believed that Fred Morrison was going to repeat this kind of behavior, I would be right there with you demanding his resignation/firing.  But I would rather that DCI establish policy that stops ALL the Fred Morrisons from doing that, forevermore.

while I was willing to give Morrison a pass when he resigned from the board spot, finding out he hired a company to try and make the issue disappear from public record is a game changer to me. It's like paying off a former mistress to hide it from your wife. it's shady, it's unethical, and it reveals a serious lapse in judgement.

[Toby]

We have reached the end of this. Locked to clean up

[JohnZ]

Issue has been addressed and thread cleaned up as best we could.  Reopening for continued discussion.

All, it goes without saying that this is a very sad and unfortunate dose of reality for the activity which needs to be discussed frankly, thoughtfully, and respectfully.....EVERYONE.

In all our virtual years, this is probably the most difficult subject we have ever had to facilitate here on DCP.  We are here - as always - to impartially stay out of the way of and help keep the conversation going as long as necessary, as long as everyone adheres to the Community Guidelines.

Please. please do your part, stay on topic, THINK, report issues to the moderators for review, and please don't engage in internet fisticuffs.  

thanks all.

 

 

[Terri Schehr]

6 minutes ago, JohnZ said:

Issue has been addressed and thread cleaned up as best we could.  Reopening for continued discussion.

All, it goes without saying that this is a very sad and unfortunate dose of reality for the activity which needs to be discussed frankly, thoughtfully, and respectfully.....EVERYONE.

In all our virtual years, this is probably the most difficult subject we have ever had to facilitate here on DCP.  We are here - as always - to impartially stay out of the way of and help keep the conversation going as long as necessary, as long as everyone adheres to the Community Guidelines.

Please. please do your part, stay on topic, THINK, report issues to the moderators for review, and please don't engage in internet fisticuffs.  

thanks all.

 

 

Thank you, John. As I told another moderator, this is an important issue and we need to discuss it without getting into silly slap fights over petty insignificant minutiae. 

[DCVNVET]

This is for (cixelsyd) regarding you previous post regarding the Kilties YouTube performances. I think I know where you might have been going regarding ML and the performance at a Racine HS football game.  WI State Law [S. 301.475] prohibits Registered Sex Offenders from being on any school premises unless the offender first notifies the school. The sex offender must notify designated school officials of the specific dates/times of the visit and his or her status as a sex offender.  Violation of this section of the law is punishable as a  Class H Felony.  BTW because of ML's lifetime registration status he has to check in every 90 days at the local jurisdiction he resides in  for the rest of his life.  As far as the 2015 Jim Ott Brass performance at I believe Prelims  I believe the Indiana Statute indicates he must register as a SO within seven days .  The registration requirements from State to State vary.  This info is all public record.