BRASSO Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) On 2/24/2019 at 4:39 PM, Fran Haring said: . I marched in a DCA corps that won three championships in the six seasons I was there and came close to winning a fourth. In 1978, we dominated the circuit, winning 14 of 17 shows. We had a great corps... for our era. But the modern-day DCA champion Buccaneers would mop the floor with us. Maybe. Maybe not. its literally impossible to compare such completely dissimilar things in my opinion. You mentioned that your Corps had " 17 show competitions " in 78. How many did the Bucs have last season ? 5 regular season shows.. 2 at Championships, total of just 7. Not even half the shows Corps were in back then. Bucs 2018 had far more time to practice, clean, polish the show with so little time at competitions. Plus, the instrumentation usage has been liberalized, and the judging sheets are vastly different. Also, its obvious that Corps design to the sheets... then, and now. Can a Center in Basketball score 100 points in a College or NBA basketball game today ? ( as was done by Wilt Chamberlain in an NBA Basketball Game ) No. The current NBA 3 second lane time restriction, and the implementation of the perimeter 3 point shot, literally makes any future chance a Center in Basketball could score 100 points in a College or NBA basketball game a certain impossibility now... and into the future as well. But if the competition rules were what they are now in NBA and College basketball back in the 60's, 70's, the Center that once scored a 100 points in a NBA Basketball Game, would have markedly altered his game on offense back then and not planted himself on offense beneath the basket for 5-25 seconds either. The plays on offense called by the Coaches would be vastly different back then too.. So as to accommodate those different rules of the game. Similarly, attempts to compare different eras in Drum Corps and who would do what is pretty much impossible as well, imo. The vast changes in the genre, judging, and what is valued in show competition, etc and so forth, is so vastly different, that it makes it so, imo. Heck, many of us attempt to compare scores from around the country each season now, and within the same 48-60 hour period, we'll rank and compare the Corps... Then the Corps go head to head with one another a few days later, and we often see how wrong that comparison really was before the head to head matchup took place. And that was done within the same year, same month before the head to head match up took place too. Now, some want to rank & compare Corps and how they'd fare in a head to head matchup from... yikes... 30-40 years apart, when the judging system between then and now that was utilized was so completely dissimilar ? Oh man, good luck with THAT. Edited February 26, 2019 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 4:24 PM, N.E. Brigand said: In the spring of 1987, my high school drama club produced the 1956 musical Li'l Abner, based on the long-running comic strip of the same name. One character, played in the original Broadway production and the subsequent movie adaptation by Julie Newmar (later famed as Catwoman on the Batman TV show, is "Stupefyin' Jones", whose appearance literally stops men in their tracks. As I recall, the Stupefyin' Jones in my school's cast, then a high school junior, was clad at least as scantily as Ms. Newmar in the clip below. Thanks for everything, Judy Newmar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 On 2/24/2019 at 4:39 PM, Fran Haring said: The whole "then vs. now" argument/discussion.... I'm not sure I can even begin to compare eras, in terms of how they would fare against each other on whatever scoresheets would be used. I marched in a DCA corps that won three championships in the six seasons I was there and came close to winning a fourth. In 1978, we dominated the circuit, winning 14 of 17 shows. Not a bad year's work. LOL. We had a great corps... for our era. But the modern-day DCA champion Buccaneers would mop the floor with us. But... what story were you trying to tell lol.... other than “ok DCA time for a change...in a lot of ways” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: But... what story were you trying to tell lol.... other than “ok DCA time for a change...in a lot of ways” Yeah.... us, the Bucs, and Westshore, 1970s-early 80s, all stirred the drink a bit. LOL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 On 2/2/2019 at 9:58 PM, Stu said: Using the adjudicating criteria of today, the '89 corps would score low. Using the adjudicating criteria of '89 the corps of today would score low. So, other than that what else would you like to know. True. Even the definitions of the judging captions that have the same names then and now are no longer the same. For just one example.... " GE " ( General Effect ). We can show program books from earlier eras, where it explicitly states in the program book with the judging system to be utilized in the show, that a large and major component of the scoring for " GE " was on " how the audience responds " to the show. ( or similar wording regarding levels of audience engagement ). However, DCI judges under the current GE Captions are instructed to do just the opposite. They are to judge the GE Caption on the levels of demand, holistic integration of Music and Guard, and how the show effects THEM emotionally and. or intellectually as a unified show Theme designed product before them. The audience is only marginally, at best, to be factored into the GE Caption scoring by the judges of today. As such, how shows were designed in earlier era's and now today, naturally respond to such dissimilar definitions. Then, when we add in the fact that earlier era's utilized the Tick System in Corps in competition evaluation, while today, the Judging system utilizes the Build Up Point system, we really don;t even need the different instrumentations utilized to recognize that any attempt at comparison's of Corps between era's an impossible endeavor on "how they'd do ". The genre of " Drum & Bugle Corps " has so changed over the years, it would be akin to asking us now how a MLB team of today would fare in competition with a Brittish Cricket team, and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Fran Haring said: Yeah.... us, the Bucs, and Westshore, 1970s-early 80s, all stirred the drink a bit. LOL. More likely stirred the (you know what) pot... couldn’t resist 😋 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Fran Haring said: Yeah.... us, the Bucs, and Westshore, 1970s-early 80s, all stirred the drink a bit. LOL. and the old guard tried to shake it instead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, BRASSO said: True. Even the definitions of the judging captions that have the same names then and now are no longer the same. For just one example.... " GE " ( General Effect ). We can show program books from earlier eras, where it explicitly states in the program book with the judging system to be utilized in the show, that a large and major component of the scoring for " GE " was on " how the audience responds " to the show. ( or similar wording regarding levels of audience engagement ). However, DCI judges under the current GE Captions are instructed to do just the opposite. They are to judge the GE Caption on the levels of demand, holistic integration of Music and Guard, and how the show effects THEM emotionally and. or intellectually as a unified show Theme designed product before them. The audience is only marginally, at best, to be factored into the GE Caption scoring by the judges of today. As such, how shows were designed in earlier era's and now today, naturally respond to such dissimilar definitions. Then, when we add in the fact that earlier era's utilized the Tick System in Corps in competition evaluation, while today, the Judging system utilizes the Build Up Point system, we really don;t even need the different instrumentations utilized to recognize that any attempt at comparison's of Corps between era's an impossible endeavor on "how they'd do ". The genre of " Drum & Bugle Corps " has so changed over the years, it would be akin to asking us now how a MLB team of today would fare in competition with a Brittish Cricket team, and vice versa. actually in some recordings found online, you can hear audience reaction noted. I forget the one, but the judge said right out loud "wow that got me and the crowd fired up!" may have been Joe Allison 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I removed a series of pots that had nothing to do with the topic and linked to an article discussing topics outside of DCP guidelines. If you think I was wrong, please contact other admins to review and possibly put them back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) "George, George, Hopkins of the Jungle. Watch out for that tree!" Would that work better then or now? Edited February 26, 2019 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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